How much the middle class makes (San Diego, Mesa: transplants, real estate, rent)

[PolarNettles]

Originally Posted by elchevere

exactly....the average household does not make $122K in SD...reminds me of the story Paul Krugman likes to share...just because Bill Gates walks into a diner does not mean that the average income of all patrons in that diner is $100 Million--especially when one individual has 99% of that wealth.

That's why we use percentile and median to compare populations. You can't get the average from those graphs.

[LuvSouthOC]

Originally Posted by Fran66

I never was good at reading charts like this. :-) Thank you -- those of you who were kind in pointing out my error.

Hi, LuvSouthOC -- I don't think I'm moving back to Southern CA/NSDC. While I make well over the median income here in NM, I don't come close to making the (official) median income of San Diego. Not to mention your drought. Granted, we're not that much better off than you are, but right now we're still better off right now (water wise). And, if worse comes to worse in The SW, I already know I want to live in Pittsburgh (PA), and I would still be well off there. I think I'll vacation in SD twice a year and stay here for now. At least until the drought is over -- but, even then, I'm getting too old for this moving around stuff. I think I'm here to stay, unless we run out of water. See you 'round C-D.

The water situation is very serious to be sure. However, Carlsbad has desalinization coming on line. It is certainly no reason not to move to CA if that is your calling! I do understand the reluctance to move, however.

As for the income thing, much of it is smoke and mirrors. Many extremely wealthy areas have incomes that are not high. The reason for this is that income is not a great measure of wealth. Do not get caught up in that. The only important thing is whether you can afford to live in a given place. If you can do so, and want to, do it. Life is short.

[loveautumn]

and these stats don't include all the "underground economy", cash income, etc. that never gets reported, in SoCal..

[Fran66]

Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC

The water situation is very serious to be sure. However, Carlsbad has desalinization coming on line. It is certainly no reason not to move to CA if that is your calling! I do understand the reluctance to move, however.

As for the income thing, much of it is smoke and mirrors. Many extremely wealthy areas have incomes that are not high. The reason for this is that income is not a great measure of wealth. Do not get caught up in that. The only important thing is whether you can afford to live in a given place. If you can do so, and want to, do it. Life is short.

I hear you. Both posts. I'll think about it. Thanks so much.

[deadcoder]

So now I'm wondering , what salary range would consider "upper class" in San Diego?

Or say,
- Upper lower class --- $200-$250K?
- Upper middle class --- $250-$350K?
- Upper upper class aka rich folks --- $350K+???

[Pedro2000]

Originally Posted by deadcoder

So now I'm wondering , what salary range would consider "upper class" in San Diego?

Or say,
- Upper lower class --- $200-$250K?
- Upper middle class --- $250-$350K?
- Upper upper class aka rich folks --- $350K+???

It's like anything. If you are a person who likes living close to a nice beach, an area that has great schools, own a house where you're not bumping into each other, and might have a small yard, you need a lot more than $250K per year in many places in San Diego.

However if you make $150K per year, your spouse makes another $150K per year, you have a lot of savings and stocks, it does't really matter. And it's all BS. I worked for a company where the CEO and other executives bragged about taking pay cuts or minimum wage salaries. It was also the same reasons they used in conferences around why nobody got company bonuses those years. And yet they never mentioned the fact they cashed out almost $1 Million out of say $10 million in their company issued stock. And at a far lower tax rate, they could make it seem like they were making $30K per year to most people, but in reality, they just cashed stock they received as compensation from the company. Good for them, but we've seen politicians talk the same BS when it comes to finances.

It is far easier to throw in "$100K per year" can buy you this, this and that if you know you can cash out a million bucks when you need it. And again, somebody making $150K per year who also has millions in stocks(either issued to them or because of sound investing over the years) is not in the same category as somebody who makes $250K per year but it's all salary and nothing else. And most of these charts and reports never even go into those differences.

[sdurbanite]

Originally Posted by elchevere

Also, reading that chart could give you the impression the average family in SD makes more than the average family in NYC ($122K - $109K)....which NYC, or portion thereof, are we talking about?--Manhattan or Staten Island....HUGE difference depending upon where you live, just like there's a huge difference between National City and La Jolla.

I'm guessing you've never looked at the Census before? On average, a family in SD City does make more than the average family in NYC. Have you forgotten Manhattan isn't the only borough that makes up the NYC? As someone mentioned earlier, there are way more lower income areas in NYC than in SD.

Just look at the links below:

Notice the higher percentages of families in SD with more that $100,000 in both median household and family incomes, and a lower percentages of families making less than $10,000.

San Diego
American FactFinder - Results

NYC
American FactFinder - Results

[sdurbanite]

Originally Posted by Pedro2000

This is why half these charts never mean anything. Of course if he discount many of the wealthier areas in other cities and include those in SD, it makes it look good. But if you discount parts of Manhattan, yet include the La Jollas, Del Mars and Coronados, it isn't really a valid comparison? I mean if you discount those places, a lot of SD suddenly looks poor.

How do you know what areas were discounted in any of the cities listed? Do you really think he took the time to remove Manhattan out of the equation for NYC and included Del Mar and Coronado for SD, in order to rank SD higher? Absurd.

Just curious, what sources do you refer to if you want to find out how places like DC and SF rank highest when it comes to salaries and household incomes?

[sdurbanite]

Originally Posted by elchevere

exactly....the average household does not make $122K in SD...reminds me of the story Paul Krugman likes to share...just because Bill Gates walks into a diner does not mean that the average income of all patrons in that diner is $100 Million--especially when one individual has 99% of that wealth.

That chart doesn't show the average household income in SD as being $122K, it says it's $71K. While this list does seem a bit off, notice how the only cities with higher incomes are the usual suspects......Bay Area, Seattle and DC. Yet some of you still insist that average incomes in SD are among the lowest in the entire country. Where is the source showing that?

[elchevere]

Where is your source, such as a quote, showing that I or anyone stated SD incomes are amongst the lowest in the nation?