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As for comparisons to Miami, depends which portion you are talking about as they have a couple of sections that would rival our downtown--Brickell, South Beach( building, zoning and height restrictions), Mid Beach and North Miami Beach (Bal Harbour/Surfside/Bay Harbour)...and this does not include downtown or the growing Edgewater /Design Districts....average income stats are misleading because many of the wealthy foreigners buying million dollar plus condos paid all cash and do not earn nor need an income...also, SD already has its share of investor/2nd home condos that sit vacant good portions of the year..furthermore, whether you like Miami or not it is a world class, or global, city whereas SD is not:
No one cares about Miami being a world class city except you. Let's be honest here, Miami is just playground for the filthy rich and nothing more. And the only thing they contribute to the Miami economy concern eating and shopping. Why don't we talk about the majority of the 6 million who live in South Florida and what they do? You just can't ignore the poor rankings for Miami because it's a known fact.
Most importantly, why are you so focused on the 1% when I assume that's not the crowd you run with? Especially living in lowly San Diego.
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
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why does it bother you when I address one of your questions?...can you not enjoy your own city unless 100% of others are in full agreement with you--is your enjoyment diminished? That's not my intention. Nobody else has called me out on 5 pages of this thread.
Anyways, if you spent more time in Brickell, the Sunset Harbour and Venetian Islands portion of SoBe, mid Beach, and Surfside/Bal Harbour/Bay Harbour you would see that it is not not all 1% and the rest poor people....I could throw in Coral Gables, Key Biscayne, and Coconut Grove as well. All liveable areas not comprising 1% with everyone else being toothless, uneducated confederate flag waving rednecks or Cubans and Haitans who just arrived on rafts and shoot people wearing hoodies....is that how you see Miami?.. It may have income disparity (like NYC, SF, etc.) but it's still a world class city...furthermore, I may not run with the 1% (though I enjoy hanging at the Pony Room in RSF) but I'm not hurting financially either--reason why I am in a position to retire within the next 2-4 years (at 58-60). Heck, I have enough to retire comfortably now but enjoy my job along with the cities I visit and would die from boredom if not challenged (suppose that puts me in the Type A vs. "laid back" category). Only thing keeping me here now is because the entire West Coast remains part of my responsibility and my impending Florida move was put on hold last year when Staples announced it had acquired Office Depot/Max, the outcome of which is still to be determined...it has only delayed the move by a few years, but I will continue to comment on SD as long as I live here so deal with it.
I will also use other cities, not just Miami, as references for comparison on this and other threads (see OC, SF, PDX, NYC, Atlanta, CHI)--sorry if bringing in experiences from other cities (good and bad) is used. If you have lived elsewhere, feel free to share examples and experiences on how DT can be improved or is it the most perfect downtown in America and the world? If I start substituting San Francisco , where I once lived (actually, I worked in downtown SF but lived in Marin County.... with the 1%...ooops, there I go again), in place of Miami for suggestions on improving downtown SD will that rattle the cage less??...can I get a home state discount?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurbanite
No one cares about Miami being a world class city except you. Let's be honest here, Miami is just playground for the filthy rich and nothing more. And the only thing they contribute to the Miami economy concern eating and shopping. Why don't we talk about the majority of the 6 million who live in South Florida and what they do? You just can't ignore the poor rankings for Miami because it's a known fact.
Most importantly, why are you so focused on the 1% when I assume that's not the crowd you run with? Especially living in lowly San Diego.
Last edited by elchevere; 01-09-2016 at 05:10 PM..
why does it bother you when I address one of your questions?...can you not enjoy your own city unless 100% of others are in full agreement with you--is your enjoyment diminished? That's not my intention. Nobody else has called me out on 5 pages of this thread.
Anyways, if you spent more time in Brickell, the Sunset Harbour and Venetian Islands portion of SoBe, mid Beach, and Surfside/Bal Harbour/Bay Harbour you would see that it is not not all 1% and the rest poor people....I could throw in Coral Gables, Key Biscayne, and Coconut Grove as well. All liveable areas not comprising 1% with everyone else being toothless, uneducated confederate flag waving rednecks or Cubans and Haitans who just arrived on rafts and shoot people wearing hoodies....is that how you see Miami?.. It may have income disparity (like NYC, SF, etc.) but it's still a world class city...furthermore, I may not run with the 1% (though I enjoy hanging at the Pony Room in RSF) but I'm not hurting financially either--reason why I am in a position to retire within the next 2-4 years (at 58-60). Heck, I have enough to retire comfortably now but enjoy my job along with the cities I visit and would die from boredom if not challenged (suppose that puts me in the Type A vs. "laid back" category). Only thing keeping me here now is because the entire West Coast remains part of my responsibility and my impending Florida move was put on hold last year when Staples announced it had acquired Office Depot/Max, the outcome of which is still to be determined...it has only delayed the move by a few years, but I will continue to comment on SD as long as I live here so deal with it.
I will also use other cities, not just Miami, as references for comparison on this and other threads (see OC, SF, PDX, NYC, Atlanta, CHI)--sorry if bringing in experiences from other cities (good and bad) is used. If you have lived elsewhere, feel free to share examples and experiences on how DT can be improved or is it the most perfect downtown in America and the world? If I start substituting San Francisco , where I once lived (actually, I worked in downtown SF but lived in Marin County.... with the 1%...ooops, there I go again), in place of Miami for suggestions on improving downtown SD will that rattle the cage less??...can I get a home state discount?
I agree that Miami is in a different league and I do not see San Diego really reaching that same league in our lifetimes. Even LA gets serious competition from Miami (think night life). And no, it's not all Russian and Colombian mobsters with 12 million dollar waterfront homes and a yacht. But in any case, while Miami is a world class city, San Diego is unbelievably livable, safer, and has arguably far better weather. As for DTSD, the topic at hand, it will continue to get better and that is a great thing. It's changed a lot from the times I used to go there back in the 80s and has recently kept getting better. I remember when there was no real grocery store and talk of one electrified people.
But I can also see how if you didn't get to travel, DTSD could get a little boring. So be happy as it sounds like you have a pretty good gig going and perhaps you don't realize it. One could do much much worse than DTSD which should continue to offer owners a lot of appreciation potential.
OT but pay attention to LA's DT too because it is getting intense on the development side. Make sure to see the new Broad museum too. On that note, I have to say I would love to see large scale museums like that in DTSD.
I clearly remember the days when many parts of DTSD was dangerous, and super Ghetto! Especially off Market st.
There were a lot old warehouses, and old run down, scary looking buildings everywhere. This was 15 years ago.
A lot has changed since then for the better, and for the worse. Unfortunately, it looks like the homeless problem has gotten worse. Every Time an old building gets demoed for new developments, the people sleeping on that block or near the building, get pushed out, and now 16th st, Island, and Imperial Ave, look like a mini Skid Row with tents being propped up literally down the entire st on 16th.
I've never seen it so bad before, until I went to the greyhound bus station during the day off Imperial to pick up a family member that came down to visit from out of state during the holidays. There were homeless everywhere! The parking lot across the street from the Imperial transit station had so many homeless hanging around that I wondered what was going on. Trash was all over the place, and it smelled horrible. I heard there was a stabbing or something and cops shut down one of the streets
It's just so sad seeing all those people in one area, and at the same time, seeing all the new development surrounding them. The city has failed badly on addressing this issue. Rich people know better, and won't buy a fancy condo when you still have a very bad homeless issue not just in the East Village, but all throughout DT.
So DTSD still has a long ways to go, and just because shiny new buildings go up, it doesn't solve the underlying problems of homelessness. The thought is, well if we make the area nicer, then they will leave.
In this case, this is untrue.
As for downtown not having much going on compared to other big cities, this is true. I mean the only real business districts that has a lot going on is Littly Italy and the Gaslamp. What else is there? East Village is more residential these days, and isn't that big of an area.
After a couple of weekends partying DT, it does get old pretty fast since there's just no where else to go in a close proximity. Hillcrest is an option, but SD isn't a bustling lively 24 hour city like an L.A. or Chicago, or SF, it's still sleepy in many ways, very touristy, as businesses shut down early, but it's not as sucky as it once was.
I have a feeling the housing market is going to turn into another bubble, increase interest rates and higher inflation will accelerate this trend and development for new housing in SD will slow down.
DTSD is already running out of space, and not every single block will be redeveloped as you still have property owners who do not want to sell out to developers. This is why we have luxury condo's next to an empty parking lot or an run down business.
One thing I love about DTLA for instance is it's hustle and bustle presence. The old rolling shed businesses in the garment district is awesome. Thousands of diverse people in one spot, shopping on the cheap, and so many places to go and eat and site see. Koreatown is awesome too. DTLA has grown up big time from the last time I went there, it has cleaned up so much in recent years, and new development has brought even more people DT.
We don't have that same feel here in SD. Nor will we ever be.
Last edited by sdlife619; 01-11-2016 at 05:54 AM..
why does it bother you when I address one of your questions?...can you not enjoy your own city unless 100% of others are in full agreement with you--is your enjoyment diminished? That's not my intention. Nobody else has called me out on 5 pages of this thread.
Anyways, if you spent more time in Brickell, the Sunset Harbour and Venetian Islands portion of SoBe, mid Beach, and Surfside/Bal Harbour/Bay Harbour you would see that it is not not all 1% and the rest poor people....I could throw in Coral Gables, Key Biscayne, and Coconut Grove as well. All liveable areas not comprising 1% with everyone else being toothless, uneducated confederate flag waving rednecks or Cubans and Haitans who just arrived on rafts and shoot people wearing hoodies....is that how you see Miami?.. It may have income disparity (like NYC, SF, etc.) but it's still a world class city...furthermore, I may not run with the 1% (though I enjoy hanging at the Pony Room in RSF) but I'm not hurting financially either--reason why I am in a position to retire within the next 2-4 years (at 58-60). Heck, I have enough to retire comfortably now but enjoy my job along with the cities I visit and would die from boredom if not challenged (suppose that puts me in the Type A vs. "laid back" category). Only thing keeping me here now is because the entire West Coast remains part of my responsibility and my impending Florida move was put on hold last year when Staples announced it had acquired Office Depot/Max, the outcome of which is still to be determined...it has only delayed the move by a few years, but I will continue to comment on SD as long as I live here so deal with it.
I will also use other cities, not just Miami, as references for comparison on this and other threads (see OC, SF, PDX, NYC, Atlanta, CHI)--sorry if bringing in experiences from other cities (good and bad) is used. If you have lived elsewhere, feel free to share examples and experiences on how DT can be improved or is it the most perfect downtown in America and the world? If I start substituting San Francisco , where I once lived (actually, I worked in downtown SF but lived in Marin County.... with the 1%...ooops, there I go again), in place of Miami for suggestions on improving downtown SD will that rattle the cage less??...can I get a home state discount?
You sound like a corporate exec for Staples? So my guess is that you can easily afford to move anywhere you please. I appreciate your honesty on SD, I've lived here most of my life and I can tell you, even for me, it feels great to get away and see other cities and see how they function and feel compared to here.
In most cases, what I notice the times I've visited other cities out of CA, is how much more friendly, talkative, and open people are in other states. In many cases people will strike up conversation with you in Texas, but in CA, that will be looked at as strange or even a No No. I cater this to the less stressful, and more affordable lifestyle that people in other states live. Also there mentality and how they carry themselves is different as well. People in CA and especially in SD are very materialistic, money driven, and are tired of working so much, and are probably not happy because they are always financially strapped which can reflect on one's outlook on life that has a great affect on their attitudes.
DTSD will continue to improve, but my concern is, too many residential properties are propping up, and not enough businesses to supplement the increase in population will soon start to become noticeable in the future. Also the Suburbanization of DTSD is another huge concern, because then you have people moving DT with a suburban state of mind, which can cause issues with these kinds of people. These types are the ones that eventually oppose larger developments from happening because they will constantly complain about daily urban life that consist of noise pollution, homelessness, graffiti, run down areas, bad smells, and lack of places to take their kids. Boo Hoo, these people need to deal with it, urban city life isn't the same as living in the quiet burbs.
Location: San Diego CA>Tijuana, BC>San Antonio, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlife619
DTSD will continue to improve, but my concern is, too many residential properties are propping up, and not enough businesses to supplement the increase in population will soon start to become noticeable in the future. .
Yes, I wonder what percentage of downtown dwellers actually work downtown, and how many wind up commuting to places like La Jolla/UTC (which is growing immensely with office towers) or Sorrento Mesa. When I lived there 2003-06 I was driving to Mission Valley to work, shop for groceries and the basics. A City Target like DTLA has would be nice.
Here is a list from Wikipedia of the newest and tallest towers built recently in San Diego with most being residential buildings, one hotel, the new courthouse, and one office tower being 501 Broadway, a very nice office building run by Irvine Group I have had the pleasure of visiting a couple of times.
1. US Federal Court House.
2. Vantage Pointe Condominium
3. Bayside at the Embarcadero
4. Hilton SD BayFront
5. Sapphire Tower
6. The Mark
7. Electra
8. The Grande North at Santa Fe Place.
9. 501 West Broadway
10. Pinnacle Tower.
For some reason the Cox Communications Office tower and the new Sempra Energy Tower didn't make the list.
That's always been a problem with DTSD redevelopment, the lack of new office buildings. I think DTLA has the same issue. Most of the new high rises are usually residential or hotel or a mix of both with offices as well but few if any seem to be just office space. And I believe a fair amount of former office buildings were converted to residential too in DTLA.
Unfortunately there isn't enough demand to build new office towers in DTSD, I wish the city could do something to try to get employers to move there and do something to help make it a more premiere location like UTC/Sorrento Valley/Del Mar.
Location: San Diego CA>Tijuana, BC>San Antonio, TX
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^^ Yes, it has been an issue. To be honest with you, it could be better, but I'd rather have DTSD the way it is as opposed to being a weekend wasteland like other cities where only office buildings exist downtown.
^^ Yes, it has been an issue. To be honest with you, it could be better, but I'd rather have DTSD the way it is as opposed to being a weekend wasteland like other cities where only office buildings exist downtown.
I agree, it's certainly much better than nothing or where it's its a ghost town after 5pm (Houston, Dallas, even the Loop in Chicago, etc..). This problem isn't that unique though, places like Miami and LA or the same way when it comes to most of the redevelopment being residential, I'm not even sure if comparable cities like Denver or Portland have been adding that many office towers in their downtowns.
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