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Old 02-11-2018, 10:11 AM
 
27,501 posts, read 56,585,141 times
Reputation: 21912

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Quote:
Originally Posted by metoque View Post
Then don't sell it lol. If an old lady can't keep up with her property taxes, she has to move...that's life. Artificially lowering her property taxes, which are then subsidized by someone else, is wildly unfair. I love the "granny" argument as if it's so cruel, but that means someone else has to pick up the slack, but that's not something you all like to bring up.

People should pay the same taxes and not discriminate.
One more time... the rate people pay in California is the same in any given area...

There is no difference between the rate I pay as a new comer and that of my neighbors who have been here for decades...

There is no slack to pick up.

Property Taxes in California are really very simple... tax is calculated on the Fair Market Value at the time of transfer and subject to a 2% annual inflation cap... plus voter approved assessments.

Do I like paying two assessments for the Oakland Raider stadium renovation... NO... even less now that they are leaving... but the voters of my city and county have decided the stadium renovation is worthy of property tax money for decades to come...

Why is it two people go in and buy brand new vehicles... these are identical right down to the sticker price... yet one pays over sticker and one pays under... the one that paid under sticker also pays less tax... because we tax things based on price paid... not on what someone else pays

The United States Supreme Court has already ruled Prop 13 does not "Discriminate" as it does not violate the Equal Protection Clause...

Last edited by Ultrarunner; 02-11-2018 at 10:30 AM..
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:16 AM
 
1,598 posts, read 724,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
One more time... the rate people pay in California is the same in any given area...
Really? Are you just taking into account the percentage tax rate? Come on...don't be disingenuous. How do you calculate property taxes? Property tax rate multiplied by "assessed" asset value.
We don't pay a percentage...we pay a dollar amount and you and I both know that it's NOT equal.

Your analogy of the car isn't valid for this argument. Those taxes are paid ONE TIME. If houses were the same way, then sure...it's fair and equal.
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:18 AM
 
1,598 posts, read 724,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
The United States Supreme Court has already ruled Prop 13 does not "Discriminate" as it does not violate the Equal Protection Clause...
The Supreme Court could also rule that slavery is Constitutional, but that doesn't make it right.
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Riverside Ca
22,165 posts, read 25,457,761 times
Reputation: 35107
Quote:
Originally Posted by metoque View Post
Because it's the only way others can own a home of their own. You can thank Prop 13 for rewarding homeowners for never selling their house, so housing crashes are the only hope for prospective homeowners.

Why would you think it's fair for existing homeowners to pay way less taxes and enjoy never-ending capital gains, and never let others have a shot at owning their home?
You really don’t understand how P13 works do you. I bought two years ago. I didn’t stop anyone from buying a home.



Quote:
Originally Posted by metoque View Post
Someone asked, "Why on earth would any decent person want others hurt and lose their home, so they could buy it at a cheap price??????????????????????"

I told you all why. It's like buying stocks or anything else...you're stupid to not want to buy at a low price. But, that means someone may be losing on the other end of the transaction. That's the reality of the market.
We’re not taking about stock market.




Quote:
Originally Posted by metoque View Post
Then don't sell it lol. If an old lady can't keep up with her property taxes, she has to move...that's life. Artificially lowering her property taxes, which are then subsidized by someone else, is wildly unfair. I love the "granny" argument as if it's so cruel, but that means someone else has to pick up the slack, but that's not something you all like to bring up.

People should pay the same taxes and not discriminate.
It’s not artificially lowering anything and it’s nothing discriminatory about it . The taxes are based on purchase price at the time of the sale. Your bs argument that someone picks up the slack is just that. EVERYONE who buys in California is covered under P13. Did you actually know that? If you buy a house today your tax base is covered by P13 under your purchase price. So in 15 years you’re not pushed out of your house by huge property taxes. So be careful what you wish for.

Let me put it to you another way. A house I bought in the 90s has a property tax of about 3500 bucks today. There were people who bought at the bubble pop and after that bought houses that mathematically gets them to pay as much or less property taxes than I currently pay. And they enjoyed HUGE gains in values. So should I say it’s unfair they are paying less or I’m oay8ng as much as they are? No that’s just the way it works.
I just pay my taxes that I owe.

My current house which I bought almost two years ago has a property tax of about 6000 bucks. It’s going to go up but it will be manageable.

You’re probably pissed because you don’t have a house and can’t buy.
Or
Have a house and think you’re somehow subsidizing the long term homeowner. You’re not. That guy paid taxes for the last 20/30 years of services you and your family enjoyed while renting. Did you go to school? Did you use public services or utilities? Did you use the existing roads? Called the cops or firefighters? That guy you’re so rabidly foaming at the mouth to raise his taxes is who paid for all that in the past when you didn’t.

As far as real taxes?wtf are you talking about ..... I’m paying real taxes. With real money. I hope P13 never goes away.


Oh and P13 has nothing to do with high prices. There are simply too many people vying to purchase the amount of houses available for sale.

Last edited by Electrician4you; 02-11-2018 at 10:53 AM..
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:42 AM
 
27,501 posts, read 56,585,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metoque View Post
Really? Are you just taking into account the percentage tax rate? Come on...don't be disingenuous. How do you calculate property taxes? Property tax rate multiplied by "assessed" asset value.
We don't pay a percentage...we pay a dollar amount and you and I both know that it's NOT equal.

Your analogy of the car isn't valid for this argument. Those taxes are paid ONE TIME. If houses were the same way, then sure...it's fair and equal.
Sales tax is paid one time... California registration collected each year is based on value...

The person paying less will be paying less for years to come.

Why anyone would want to go back to a system ripe with fraud and sweetheart deals and Assessor going to prison and committing suicide manipulating "Values" is beyond me.

Think about it... Fair is paying tax based on YOUR actions... not that of someone else.

Prop 13 replaced volumes of Tax Code with a few simple paragraphs...

Prop 13 eliminated the monumental task of guessing the value of every taxable property in the State.

Maybe you have never lived outside of California?

I lived in Washington State and my property tax and that of my neighbors went up 80% in one year... let me repeat... tax went up 80% in one year!

How could that be???

A developer from California came in and paid an outlandish price for some land... thinking he was going to make money in spades... well, the locals all knew the land could never have more than one home due to wetland setbacks...

Didn't matter... the Thurston County Tax Assessor seized on the opportunity of one over the top sales price and jacked up everyone's property tax... this was in 2007... then the market tanked but the damaged was done.

Once you have experienced double digit property tax increases you will never take Prop 13 for granted again...
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:43 AM
 
Location: San Diego
40,497 posts, read 36,320,364 times
Reputation: 24785
Quote:
Originally Posted by metoque View Post
Then they don't deserve to live there and should go rent or move away. Only someone who can pay their taxes (real taxes, not this Prop 13 BS) should own that home. Just because someone is already living in a home, doesn't mean they have some god-given right to stay there.
Lucky for us you don't control our property taxes or property values huh my original mortgage was 875 and I paid 150,000 and it's now worth 658,000. Nice tidy profit if I sold today huh.
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:47 AM
 
27,501 posts, read 56,585,141 times
Reputation: 21912
Quote:
Originally Posted by metoque View Post
The Supreme Court could also rule that slavery is Constitutional, but that doesn't make it right.
No but it is the highest Court in the Land... and to say otherwise is patently false.

I get it... you are unhappy and have neighbor envy... it is only natural.

Think it was easy for me to pay $8800 property tax when my seller paid $1200?

The more I thought about the more I realized it is my turn to shoulder the burden and bought willingly... it was 100% my choice to buy or not.

I cherish my senior neighbors and glad we live in a State where they are not kicked to the curb because they don't have enough zeros on the their bank accounts.

I also realize in 40 or 50 years I fully intend to be in their shoes... the one with the lower property taxes.... as this is not only fair but the right thing to do...
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:49 AM
 
1,598 posts, read 724,254 times
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@Electrician4you Wow. Where do I start. Rent goes to the landlord, who pays property taxes. So, renters are subsidizing services supported by property taxes. That argument that you've been paying property taxes for 20 or 30 years to support services throughout those years, well good for you. Guess what, that doesn't preclude you from continuing to pay your fair share of taxes to support what services COST TODAY.

Let me be clear. If we all were paying property taxes ONLY AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, then yes, it should be calculated at that time of the value being assessed. HOWEVER, taxes are PAID EVERY YEAR. Yes, that's right...EVERY YEAR. Why in the hell should the amount you pay every year be tied back to some value 10, 20 or 30 years ago when you originally purchased your house? Property taxes need to support services that require funding NOW, not 30 years ago. Stop trying to make this sound fair. Let me guess...you're a homeowner who bought a long time ago, love your cheap property taxes compared to your neighbors, and don't want to have to pay your fair share because you got lucky.

Funny how people skew their perspective when it benefits them, and forget about fairness.
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:50 AM
 
1,598 posts, read 724,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Think it was easy for me to pay $8800 property tax when my seller paid $1200?
At least you admit it's not fair.
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:54 AM
 
1,598 posts, read 724,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Once you have experienced double digit property tax increases you will never take Prop 13 for granted again...
But Prop 13 doesn't solve the problem. If you have a problem with property taxes, then really solve the issue. Don't favor the NIMBY folks and screw over new families trying to buy a home and make a life.

How about this? Why not make property taxes a flat dollar amount based on the acreage that one owns, and not on the value of the property? Each city can set that rate, but it's the same rate regardless of the value of your property. Wouldn't that be a more fair way to equally tax homeowners to support city services rendered?
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