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Old 02-11-2018, 01:44 PM
 
1,598 posts, read 729,290 times
Reputation: 1035

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RosieSD View Post
You'd still have the same problem you're complaining about. As long as their lot sizes were the same, someone living in a fancy oceanfront house in Pacific Beach would pay the same as someone living in a shack in Barrio Logan.

How is that fair to the person in Barrio Logan?

And do you really want to give the city control over determining your tax rate every year?
Does the land in PB require more services than the land in Barrio Logan? If not, why shouldn't they pay the same? How is it fair to the person in PB to pay more if they don't use more services? People need to get away from taxing based on market value, and then the desire for something like Prop 13 goes away.
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Old 02-11-2018, 01:47 PM
 
1,598 posts, read 729,290 times
Reputation: 1035
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Like you said, life's not fair and that young family is not entitled any more than the old lady to owning a home here. I also don't see how an acre plot a few miles from the beach should be paying more than the little postage stamp sized ones right on the water.


2012 or so was a great time too buy but many sat on their hands. It's also probably fair to say that old lady had a family at one time too and she did indeed pay her taxes.

If home ownership is the end all then one can still buy a home for less than 50 grand all over the US. It's just not here.
You act as if I'm talking about being entitled to a home. I'm only talking about property taxes. I'm not talking about why a new family should get a house for $100K vs $800K.
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Old 02-11-2018, 01:54 PM
 
27,565 posts, read 56,706,850 times
Reputation: 21999
This is where we disagree... I believe each individual is responsible for their actions and government should help in this regard and not punish innocents which means taxing them from their property.

As such... why should someone with more money than brains or a housing bubble wipe me out when all I have done is acted prudently... such as buying within my means.

Before Prop 13 all it took was a single sale in a neighborhood to trigger new assessments... where is the fairness in that?

There were actually developers that Block Busted simply by paying an outlandish price for a single family home thereby jacking up everyone's taxes to the point they had little choice but to sell...

It happened a lot back in the 60's and 70's where entire neighborhoods in Oakland were redeveloped for commercial or apartments... the "Value" spike from one sale and soon the homeowners were faced with double digit tax increases...

The government serves the people... not the people the government.

The beauty of Prop 13 is that each transfer stands on it's own... makes no matter what your neighbor does... the epitome of fairness and peaceful enjoyment.
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Old 02-11-2018, 02:02 PM
 
1,598 posts, read 729,290 times
Reputation: 1035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
This is where we disagree... I believe each individual is responsible for their actions and government should help in this regard and not punish innocents which means taxing them from their property.

As such... why should someone with more money than brains or a housing bubble wipe me out when all I have done is acted prudently... such as buying within my means.

Before Prop 13 all it took was a single sale in a neighborhood to trigger new assessments... where is the fairness in that?
This is why I'm saying that property tax needs to NOT be value based. It needs to be based on the services that need funding...period. Prop 13 inequitably solves the issue for a certain group of people at the expense of another group of people. Affirmative Action quotas are the the exact same way. Let's discriminate against one class of people to elevate another class, vs making it based purely on merit.
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Old 02-11-2018, 02:20 PM
 
27,565 posts, read 56,706,850 times
Reputation: 21999
Maybe get rid of Value Taxes across the board?

The utility taxes here are based on charges... would be more equitable to pay a flat fee... gas tax is a hybrid... flat fee and sales.

A $90,000 Range Rover doesn't use more highway, parking, etc than a $30,000 vehicle.

Close to half my property tax bill consists of assessments... this is the point I was making.

We all pay the same $323 transit assessment, the same $6 mosquito assessment, the same assessment for Police, Fire, Street Lights, and about 20 more items... we pay these fees irregardless of usage... I live close to work... so no freeway or public transit... but I pay a lot for these things.

The biggest issue I have is property taxes for public sports stadiums... never gone to a game in my life and we will be paying for decades... to add insult to injury the Warriors and Raiders are leaving... and sticking the tax payer with huge bill to pay when the teams are long gone.

The wet weather Assessment is based on Lot Square footage with most residential lots paying the minimum.

I lived in Austria for a time after college... it was a great experience working there... Property Taxes were not consequential... it paid for snow removal and local roads with a little for the volunteer fire department and local police... a flat rate.

Income and Sales taxes were high and if I had a choice I would gladly get rid of "Property Tax" in favor of high sales income tax...

Another way to put it is don't mess with the roof over my head... my friends over there often lived in the same family home for hundreds of years.
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Old 02-11-2018, 03:10 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
2,263 posts, read 1,083,075 times
Reputation: 3657
The argument against prop 13, and people not paying their fair share, has been debunked by economists on both sides of the coin many times over with real facts and figures. In a nutshell, the high turnover of properties, coupled with the ever increasing property values, gives the California coffers plenty of revenue. California doesn’t have a revenue shortage from prop 13, it has a spending problem. End of story. Oh and for the record I bought in 2017 and have no problem paying the highest tax in my neighborhood at the moment, I comprehend how the system works.
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Old 02-11-2018, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Riverside Ca
22,165 posts, read 25,603,299 times
Reputation: 35131
Quote:
Originally Posted by metoque View Post
@Electrician4you Wow. Where do I start. Rent goes to the landlord, who pays property taxes. So, renters are subsidizing services supported by property taxes. That argument that you've been paying property taxes for 20 or 30 years to support services throughout those years, well good for you. Guess what, that doesn't preclude you from continuing to pay your fair share of taxes to support what services COST TODAY.


Let me be clear. If we all were paying property taxes ONLY AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, then yes, it should be calculated at that time of the value being assessed. HOWEVER, taxes are PAID EVERY YEAR. Yes, that's right...EVERY YEAR.

Let me be more clear. Taxes are paid every year based on the purchase price not some valuation some douchebag in a office at some tax accessors office thinks it’s worth. Th3 reason P13 was enacted was because of those ****tards who jus5 saw taxpayers as a ATM but you’re too stupid to realize this.

Taxes are paid every year? Incredible. I guess the money I’m paying to OC and Riverside tax accessors don’t count


Why in the hell should the amount you pay every year be tied back to some value 10, 20 or 30 years ago when you originally purchased your house? Property taxes need to support services that require funding NOW, not 30 years ago.

I pay more taxes through my properties, investments and income taxes than you ever dreamed of. Why should I pay taxes based n a valuation that has no bearing on my finances. Should i then be able to deduct the imaginary interest rate on a imaginary loan! I mean after all I’m paying taxes on a valuation based on a imaginary amount since the house isn’t sold.


Stop trying to make this sound fair. Let me guess...you're a homeowner who bought a long time ago, love your cheap property taxes compared to your neighbors, and don't want to have to pay your fair share because you got lucky.

Funny how people skew their perspective when it benefits them, and forget about fairness

Funny how you don’t understand fairness

.
What if I sell you my house for 250,000 and the accessors wants to tax you on a valuation of 500,000. Then in 3 years they want to tax you at 750,000. You ok with that? I’m betting you would scream to high heaven. Because that’s what would happen with your idiotic suggestion. .

How the f did i get lucky? When i bought I struggled to buy just like everyone else who is buying today. Christ nobody gave me a house. I had to scrimp and save and get a loan. It’s stupid to say I got lucky when I bought. Luck had nothing to do with it.

Most houses in California have been sold a few t8nes over the 10/30/30 years. There aren’t many long term lived here all my life and will die here homeowners. Most houses in the areas I have investments have been sold a few times over. And I’m paying pretty close to what they are paying on the sold price. I’m not getting anything for free.


Renters aren’t subsidizing anything. They are paying for a service. That’s it. Out of the money that they pay the LL pays taxes, repairs and oh income taxes. When a LL hires someone to do work on rentals they are creating a job. Which is more than you’re doing. And as a homeowner I am paying for those services today. I’m still paying property taxes. You’re the typical crybaby who is green with envy because someone isn’t paying their fair share. Lol yeah typical crybaby attitude. Fast forward 20 years let me know how that p13 is working for you when another whiner cries about how life is unfair.

Did you actually read what I wrote? Or were you too busy blindly writing a response. Yes I have multiple houses that I bought throughout the years and I just bought another house TWO years ago. So much for your I’m not paying my fair share.

Last edited by Electrician4you; 02-11-2018 at 04:05 PM..
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Old 02-11-2018, 03:44 PM
 
Location: San Diego
40,590 posts, read 36,423,546 times
Reputation: 24853
I'd be interested to see what each actual parcel has paid in taxes over the years since it was first bought. Then I'd like to see how it was spent. I know that isn't possible but watching a Charger game isn't a "service".
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Old 02-11-2018, 05:38 PM
 
1,598 posts, read 729,290 times
Reputation: 1035
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacoSoup View Post
The argument against prop 13, and people not paying their fair share, has been debunked by economists on both sides of the coin many times over with real facts and figures. In a nutshell, the high turnover of properties, coupled with the ever increasing property values, gives the California coffers plenty of revenue. California doesn’t have a revenue shortage from prop 13, it has a spending problem. End of story. Oh and for the record I bought in 2017 and have no problem paying the highest tax in my neighborhood at the moment, I comprehend how the system works.
It's not about whether CA has enough revenue from it, it's how it's collected and in what quantities from who.

You have no problem paying higher taxes while others pay a fraction? Wow. You should open a charity.
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Old 02-11-2018, 05:41 PM
 
1,598 posts, read 729,290 times
Reputation: 1035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
What if I sell you my house for 250,000 and the accessors wants to tax you on a valuation of 500,000. Then in 3 years they want to tax you at 750,000. You ok with that? I’m betting you would scream to high heaven. Because that’s what would happen with your idiotic suggestion. .

How the f did i get lucky? When i bought I struggled to buy just like everyone else who is buying today. Christ nobody gave me a house. I had to scrimp and save and get a loan. It’s stupid to say I got lucky when I bought. Luck had nothing to do with it.

Most houses in California have been sold a few t8nes over the 10/30/30 years. There aren’t many long term lived here all my life and will die here homeowners. Most houses in the areas I have investments have been sold a few times over. And I’m paying pretty close to what they are paying on the sold price. I’m not getting anything for free.


Renters aren’t subsidizing anything. They are paying for a service. That’s it. Out of the money that they pay the LL pays taxes, repairs and oh income taxes. When a LL hires someone to do work on rentals they are creating a job. Which is more than you’re doing. And as a homeowner I am paying for those services today. I’m still paying property taxes. You’re the typical crybaby who is green with envy because someone isn’t paying their fair share. Lol yeah typical crybaby attitude. Fast forward 20 years let me know how that p13 is working for you when another whiner cries about how life is unfair.

Did you actually read what I wrote? Or were you too busy blindly writing a response. Yes I have multiple houses that I bought throughout the years and I just bought another house TWO years ago. So much for your I’m not paying my fair share.
Did you read what I wrote? I said that property tax SHOULD NOT BE VALUATION BASED!!! Everyone should pay based on the parcel of land that they own, NOT ON ITS VALUE! You're so caught up in what you think I'm arguing because your passion is blinding you, that you're not reading what I'm actually saying.
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