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Old 03-02-2018, 04:48 PM
 
18,173 posts, read 12,533,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
If we really wanted cheaper housing we'd push for building more cheaper housing for the average person. Instead single family homes are being torn down and replaced with (usually) higher end condos. It adds density but doesn't add infrastructure to support it and most people still can't afford it.

Chasing after prop 13 is pointless.
Any homeowner or prospective homeowner who wanted to eliminate Prop 13 would be shooting himself in the foot. In fact booth feet.
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Old 03-02-2018, 05:41 PM
 
321 posts, read 267,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Any homeowner or prospective homeowner who wanted to eliminate Prop 13 would be shooting himself in the foot. In fact booth feet.
Why is that? Basically the newest homeowners are subsidizing the taxes of long time residents and commercial properties. So they are big losers in prop 13.

Not sure exactly where the crossover lies, but I'm guessing maybe 10years
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Old 03-02-2018, 09:08 PM
 
27,487 posts, read 56,532,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snpdragr View Post
Why is that? Basically the newest homeowners are subsidizing the taxes of long time residents and commercial properties. So they are big losers in prop 13.

Not sure exactly where the crossover lies, but I'm guessing maybe 10years
Not true as EVERY taxable property in the State pay the EXACT SAME Prop 13 rate.

As to crossover... I bought in 2004 and pay more for half the home and my 1957 build vs the 2001 build on my neighbor... 1725 square feet for me and 3000+ for them... they bought in 2010.

To follow your logic I should be paying a lot less as I bought years before they did.

The fact is I paid more whereas my neighbor bought a bank foreclosure and got a bargain at that.

Prop 13 is only concerned about the Fair Market Value at the time of transfer... nothing more or less as far as value... it also holds the annual inflation increase to no more than 2% and requires voter approval for new assessments...

Plus... it replaced volumes of tax code with a few simply paragraphs...
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:42 PM
 
Location: San Diego
825 posts, read 1,011,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Just check the statistics. More people want to buy than houses available. Bidding wars on homes, etc. Look at the number complaining here that want prices to drop so they can buy. While it may happen it is better to make more money and save. The price rises mean more people want to buy than houses available. Check a few threads here about people getting out bid by other residents.

Your reply was to someone posting about more inventory coming on the market. We all know what it looks like now with no inventory.
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Old 03-05-2018, 02:38 PM
 
321 posts, read 267,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Not true as EVERY taxable property in the State pay the EXACT SAME Prop 13 rate.
That's not exclusive of newer home owners paying more in taxes (on average) than long time home owners.

Quote:
Prop 13 is only concerned about the Fair Market Value at the time of transfer... nothing more or less as far as value... it also holds the annual inflation increase to no more than 2% and requires voter approval for new assessments...
Yes and with home prices generally appreciating more than 2% per year, on average homeowners who bought longest ago, get the most benefit compared with a system based on current property values. Of course there are dips in prices so it's not absolute for every single home.

I'm not arguing for or against prop 13 here. I'm just saying why a new home owner doesn't benefit.
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Old 03-05-2018, 03:20 PM
 
18,173 posts, read 12,533,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snpdragr View Post
Why is that? Basically the newest homeowners are subsidizing the taxes of long time residents and commercial properties. So they are big losers in prop 13.

Not sure exactly where the crossover lies, but I'm guessing maybe 10years
Nope the older residents paid for what the new ones envoy now without paying for it.

Once you own a house you do NOT want the property taxes to go up. Common sense especially in CA where they would raise them through the roof and you would end up in financial trouble.

Changing prop 13 would not lower costs it would raise them for everyone. Do you really want to buy a house and have the taxes double the next year? Oh, prop 13 being eliminated would not drop prices at all.
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Old 03-05-2018, 03:25 PM
 
18,173 posts, read 12,533,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAlt View Post
Your reply was to someone posting about more inventory coming on the market. We all know what it looks like now with no inventory.
It is like that in many places and is not likely to change any time soon. If it does the unemployment rate will go up and more homeless will exist and Millennial's will still be priced out.

They do not make more land and building up takes a LOT of money and prices where they are doing that are not dropping. A few low income Apts but not enough and they won't help most who want to buy. Even with the new build that have occurred in the last couple of years prices have gone up not down. What builder wants to make less money and what City wants less income from property taxes?
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Old 03-05-2018, 09:54 PM
 
321 posts, read 267,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Changing prop 13 would not lower costs it would raise them for everyone.
Under an alternative market value based taxed system (setup to take in the same total amount of money as under prop 13) newer home owners will pay less on average and long time homeowners will pay more.

Quote:
Do you really want to buy a house and have the taxes double the next year? Oh, prop 13 being eliminated would not drop prices at all.
There are a variety of tax systems possible. In many places, your tax is prorated against the market value of other houses to meet a total budget. In the case of a housing price boom, since everyone's home price appreciates similarly, there's no change in property tax. E.g see Budget Basics: Property Tax
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Old 03-05-2018, 10:12 PM
 
27,487 posts, read 56,532,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snpdragr View Post
That's not exclusive of newer home owners paying more in taxes (on average) than long time home owners.



Yes and with home prices generally appreciating more than 2% per year, on average homeowners who bought longest ago, get the most benefit compared with a system based on current property values. Of course there are dips in prices so it's not absolute for every single home.

I'm not arguing for or against prop 13 here. I'm just saying why a new home owner doesn't benefit.
Of course they do...

Prop 13 also requires Voter Approval for new assessments... this is a huge benefit.

If homes trends towards appreciation... then my case is made... jump in and in 40 years the new homeowners will have attained the same status as the old home owners who in all likelihood will be 6 feet under in 40 years.

Homes change hands all the time... it was 7 and now 10 years average???

The dips in value happen fairly regularly... with the period from 2008 to 2012 being extreme...

I have friends around the country who have seen prices dip and not come back... they live in the Michigan and Nebraska... one is from a town that had a bank, post office, stores, etc... and now has no bank, no post office, etc... farming just doesn't need as many people so most moved away...

We know California Real Estate can dip... many are feeling squeezed because they missed the boat... some even contributed because they were on the boat and jumped shipped and refused to wait it out.
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Old 03-05-2018, 10:17 PM
 
27,487 posts, read 56,532,508 times
Reputation: 21893
Quote:
Originally Posted by snpdragr View Post
Under an alternative market value based taxed system (setup to take in the same total amount of money as under prop 13) newer home owners will pay less on average and long time homeowners will pay more.



There are a variety of tax systems possible. In many places, your tax is prorated against the market value of other houses to meet a total budget. In the case of a housing price boom, since everyone's home price appreciates similarly, there's no change in property tax. E.g see Budget Basics: Property Tax
I guess as a new property owner in my neighborhood I should fully support ditching Prop 13... but I am not.

I fully intend to be here in 30 to 40 years and Prop 13 adds the predictability to make this happen regarding taxes.

There is nothing fair about forcing those out of their homes...

Think about it... one sale could then cause an entire neighborhood to be reassessed... then what... sounds like a sure fire way to price people out...

I value a diverse population of neighbors... young and old.
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