San Diego leads the U.S. in income growth

[sdurbanite]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

You. Just. Don’t. ... have a clue about military base residencies. We have our own commissaries (food stores) ... no burden whatsoever to local infrastructure. We have our own on-base restaurants from fast food to quality dining, golf courses, bowling alleys, movie theatres, laundromats and dry cleaners, Starbucks, auto licensing offices, beaches, ball fields, marinas, churches, etc.

The military presence in San Diego does not impact urban growth in the slightest because it is not growing itself. It is by nature transient, and fluctuates somewhat up and down constantly. However it is not growing beyond its ‘footprint’ as has been established for many decades. In fact, the military is slightly shrinking.

The military’s use of civilian infrastructure is not growing. At the same time, it IS supporting many thousands of long-term civilian San Diegans and the overall SD economy in very significant measure.

While it used to be that military retirees lived only in civilian real estate - in recent years military housing on some bases has now been opened to renting to retirees. That said, beyond base housing, the scenario we have been discussing here isn’t even base housing, let alone civilian housing. The retiree scenario as discussed is where a live-aboard boat rotates around three military-only recreational marinas. The retiree uses only military facilities and stores and infrastructure.

Since military personnel are always coming and going within the set infrastructure, there is always a flow of vacancies and replacements ... that never exceed the established footprint.

So, yes, it IS very much like living on a deserted island in the middle of the civilian metropolitan landscape. Exactly. And thus, NO, the retiree does NOT add to growth issues and burdens ... unless s/he moves into civilian housing off base. Exactly.

I. Just. Don’t. Get. How. Little. Some. People. Know. About. Military. Life.

Just how many boats are you talking about that rotate around the marina? 15 or 15,000? Since you pride yourself about not having to leave your bubble to eat, shop and play in SD (Thus not impacting the daily lives of the average San Diegan), how many years has it been since you've stepped off base?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by sdurbanite

Just how many boats are you talking about that rotate around the marina? 15 or 15,000? Since you pride yourself about not having to leave your bubble to eat, shop and play in SD (Thus not impacting the daily lives of the average San Diegan), how many years has it been since you've stepped off base?

One 24 foot boat.

Now, isn’t this amusing. I step off base everyday. Use bike paths and often go various places and spend time and a bit of money into the civilian SD economy.

Apparently you can’t grasp what I just mapped out clearly for you: the military base population isn’t growing in SD. It’s actually shrunk in comparison to other times past. All branches are down very significantly from levels previously supported back in the 90’s - except Coast Guard. Military personnel is, I repeat, by nature, transient and in constant flux. (POTUS Chump now wants some increase again but overall still less than a couple decades past.). But its geographic footprint on SD county remains EXACTLY the same ... while personnel numbers have decreased. (Over the last ¼ century it has actually shrunk geographically, as well ... i.e. Liberty Station.)

Here’s a little arithmetic brain-twister for you:

You have a basket of 230,000 apples.

Take out 10,000 and send them to Florida.

Put 3,000 apples from a shipment from Washington State back in.

How many apples do you have in your basket now?

Is the number more ... or less than when you started?

Does that swap constitute growth ... or shrinkage of your inventory?

Have a nice evening.

[TacoSoup]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

One 24 foot boat.

Now, isn’t this amusing. I step off base everyday. Use bike paths and often go various places and spend time and a bit of money into the civilian SD economy.

Apparently you can’t grasp what I just mapped out clearly for you: the military base population isn’t growing in SD. It’s actually shrunk in comparison to other times past. All branches are down very significantly from levels previously supported back in the 90’s - except Coast Guard. Military personnel is, I repeat, by nature, transient and in constant flux. (POTUS Chump now wants some increase again but overall still less than a couple decades past.). But its geographic footprint on SD county remains EXACTLY the same ... while personnel numbers have decreased. (Over the last ¼ century it has actually shrunk geographically, as well ... i.e. Liberty Station.)

Here’s a little arithmetic brain-twister for you:

You have a basket of 230,000 apples.

Take out 10,000 and send them to Florida.

Put 3,000 apples from a shipment from Washington State back in.

How many apples do you have in your basket now?

Is the number more ... or less than when you started?

Does that swap constitute growth ... or shrinkage of your inventory?

Have a nice evening.

I know it’s hard to admit because you do leave a such a small footprint, but the second I have to go around you on the bike path, or wait behind you in a store, you’re making an impact on the growth. The shrinking or expansion of the military base has zero relevance once you personally step foot off that base. Sorry

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by TacoSoup

I know it’s hard to admit because you do leave a such a small footprint, but the second I have to go around you on the bike path, or wait behind you in a store, you’re making an impact on the growth. The shrinking or expansion of the military base has zero relevance once you personally step foot off that base. Sorry

No. Sorry. But you also do not grasp the math here.

If you have 5 apples

And you take away 2

And add back 1

You have fewer than you started with.

The military has been in San Diego in great numbers that built up from 1848 on to present day. Our % of the overall city/county population today, however, is not only smaller by % of the total ... but in total number of persons than in recent decades.

“Replacements” are not “growth.” When personnel leave and are replaced - on bases - by fewer personnel: the net result is minus ... not plus.

We (military) have always been mingling ‘off base’ in the community. And now there are fewer of us off base than before. The metro growth is entirely civilian. Military numbers are down. Saying that a new military base resident has increased the county population is simply false if that base resident is merely a replacement ... and especially a replacement among a total of fewer replacements.

The military bases in SD County have not changed in size in decades. Their footprint is structured to accommodate many thousands more than they do presently. Diminishing replacement base residents do not constitute county community growth. New civilian residents do.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by TacoSoup

I know it’s hard to admit because you do leave a such a small footprint, but the second I have to go around you on the bike path, or wait behind you in a store, you’re making an impact on the growth. The shrinking or expansion of the military base has zero relevance once you personally step foot off that base. Sorry

There are fewer of them to step around, etc., so they are having less impact than in the past. Non military are having far more of an impact.

[TacoSoup]

Originally Posted by expatCA

There are fewer of them to step around, etc., so they are having less impact than in the past. Non military are having far more of an impact.

Yes that is true, but the point me and other posters were trying to make is he’s staying at the base on his own accord as a retired person. By him doing this, and not choosing another city, is having an impact, there’s no two ways around it. It’s not like he’s getting stationed here only to leave on a ship for 6 months. Even then that person is having an impact too. With his logic he’s been arguing with is like saying I had no impact when I moved back home after college because my moms house was built for more than just her and it’s not putting any extra strain in the system regardless of what I do about town.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by TacoSoup

Yes that is true, but the point me and other posters were trying to make is he’s staying at the base on his own accord as a retired person. By him doing this, and not choosing another city, is having an impact, there’s no two ways around it. It’s not like he’s getting stationed here only to leave on a ship for 6 months. Even then that person is having an impact too. With his logic he’s been arguing with is like saying I had no impact when I moved back home after college because my moms house was built for more than just her and it’s not putting any extra strain in the system regardless of what I do about town.

Lol. No. It’s not like your example of moving back to Mom’s house at all.

Let’s use Mom’s house as an equivalent, though. Here’s how:

Mom rents rooms to 3 boarders.

If you move back to sleep on the couch because all the bedrooms are full ... THAT’S “growth”, with “strain on the system”.

IF, however, two boarders move out and you move back in to one of the vacated rooms ... that IS NOT “growth”. In fact the house “systems” are under LESS strain than it was designed to handle.

Military are constantly deploying, being reassigned, and retiring. Base housing is now being made available to retirees on some bases exactly because they want to reduce vacancies created by shrinking forces.

That said, I don’t even use base housing. I use marina slips vacated by transfers and retirees moving away.

Replacement is NOT equal to “growth”. “Growth” is IN ADDITION TO replacement levels.