San Diego leads the U.S. in income growth (Los Angeles: apartments, rental)

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Yeah, I get that you are referring to a model range, and relative development, compared to uncontrolled past examples. My point is: even 50 years from now, having kicked the can down the road semi-successfully, we’ll be far worse off than if we’d just confront now the pointless damages and stress we continue to manufacture unnecessarily.

None of this development crap we are selling / buying is good for the future. Lousy for the present too, for that matter.

As a region I don't think that is a given or inevitable. You can have better growth that improves the quality of life for a lot of people and makes SD even more desirable.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

All good if that’s what’s important to you. I liked not having to compete with millions of people for basic needs like housing, jobs and transportation and quality schools for my kids. I don’t really care about restaurants, but you're right that has improved a lot since the 90's.

If the city was a big job creator that needed housing to accommodate it's growing workforce, it would make more sense to me, but it seems like we have been conditioned to believe that we *need* to accommodate everyone who wants to live here, no matter who they are, spare almost no expense to do so, regardless on the impact on the environment or the quality of life of the people who already do.

When you moved here San Diego already had millions of people though. You basically helped contribute to the problem you're complaining about.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by sdurbanite

So what's the alternative? No growth and a stagnant economy? You're obviously retired with that mentality.

Originally Posted by sdurbanite

With this thinking, why not live in a less developed place? You're obviously not a city person.

I am retired. I have had this mentality since I got out of service career about 30 years ago and continued on with my second civilian career. I am a minimalist by nature. I do not derive my pleasures and satisfactions in life by material acquisitions.

Not sure why my attitude makes me “not a city person” in your mind. I didn’t complain about living in the city. I pointed out the flaws of perpetual development and growth. Personally, I live now part time in the city - and love it. And I live part time out and about away from cities - and I love it.

If you love ceaseless development, why don’t you move to places that are clearly positioned for that future?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by sav858

As a region I don't think that is a given or inevitable. You can have better growth that improves the quality of life for a lot of people and makes SD even more desirable.

Hmmm ... the fly in your soup is “improves the quality of life for a lot of people ” ... which leaves the door open for me to insert “destroys the quality of life for a lot of people” as well. Desirable for some. Undesirable for others.

In the end, though, the long-term need to confront the pointlessness and impossibility of perpetual growth - is worsened. Conditioning is hard to throw off. The deeper we go into the rabbit hole, the harder it is to find the route out ... both environmentally and psychologically.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by sav858

When you moved here San Diego already had millions of people though. You basically helped contribute to the problem you're complaining about.

So what? Doesn’t change the truth of the situation. That’s just throwing personal shade at an individual - when a total cultural shift is required.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Hmmm ... the fly in your soup is “improves the quality of life for a lot of people ” ... which leaves the door open for me to insert “destroys the quality of life for a lot of people” as well. Desirable for some. Undesirable for others.

In the end, though, the long-term need to confront the pointlessness and impossibility of perpetual growth - is worsened. Conditioning is hard to throw off. The deeper we go into the rabbit hole, the harder it is to find the route out ... both environmentally and psychologically.

Yeah and that is why I said "for a lot of people" instead of everyone, clearly implying it won't for some others. The difference is your no growth/shut the door behind you is more unrealistic so if there is growth I'd rather it being better and smart.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

So what? Doesn’t change the truth of the situation. That’s just throwing personal shade at an individual - when a total cultural shift is required.

The truth of the situation that you and others that moved to region, which already had millions of people when you did, also contributed to the growth problem? Yes I know and it's hypocritical. Really the only ones that have a legitimate right to complain are those born in the region that really didn't have a say in the matter. Why are you complaining about others moving here when that's exactly what you did? That's not "shade", just the truth of the situation certain people don't want to admit.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by sav858

Yeah and that is why I said "for a lot of people" instead of everyone, clearly implying it won't for some others. The difference is your no growth/shut the door behind you is more unrealistic so if there is growth I'd rather it being better and smart.

It is unrealistic to expect human nature to be intelligent enough to recognize its foolishness. I have no such expectations. Just observations

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by sav858

The truth of the situation that you and others that moved to region, which already had millions of people when you did, also contributed to the growth problem? Yes I know and it's hypocritical. Really the only ones that have a legitimate right to complain are those born in the region that really didn't have a say in the matter. Why are you complaining about others moving here when that's exactly what you did? That's not "shade", just the truth of the situation certain people don't want to admit.

Anyone has a perfect right to make observations about species stupidities.

As I have said before: demanding individuals take broad responsibility for cultural and species-wide failing is a strawman position. I do take personal responsibility as far as an individual reasonably can through my lifestyle choices.

That said, I was originally brought to San Diego by Uncle Sam when I was 18-19, to serve the nation in armed forces. That was 1966, bro. Yes, I moved around California since then and have only returned in the past 4 years, to enjoy the benefits -particularly those afforded military retirees in a city deeply populated by military and facilities. Pretty sure I earned my place ... including under fire for a few years.

[spoonman1]

Ah, Tulemutt was brought here against his will and has determined himself to be worthy of migrating to SD. Not like those lesser people that want to live here.

In all seriousness, thank you for your service. Your post though does reek of self importance and entitlement.