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$6-10K a year to maintain a car? Why do you always use extreme examples for car expenses when making an argument not to have one? How come everyone has a car payment when the average age of cars on the road in America is 12 years old, and increasing every year?
I still have a 21 year old truck that was my primary vehicle for a dozen years or so. I paid $4K cash for it when it was 6 years old and drove it minimally as I lived and worked at the beach. I have all the repairs bills in the glove box, including tires, and I would be shocked if it was more than $3K, probably closer to $2K. This doesn’t include gas and oil changes, but those were few as I’d typically drove only a few thousand miles a year back then. One year it was only 1,200. I also had low insurance and registration fees. Well under $500 collectively annually, and that’s being very liberal. You have a smog check every two years, but that’s in the noise.
I did the math, and went on the high end, and it cost me $1,650 a year to maintain it with gas/oil for the 30K I put on it over 12 years. More like $1,475 if you factor in the couple grand I could get in a day if I were to sell it now. Obviously that will go up if you’re commuting with gas and repairs, but that scenario doesn’t apply to the OP, and lots of other car owners.
Let’s say you like to get out more, but still don’t need it to commute, and make it $2K a year. I don’t know, but $5.50 a day to have the luxury of not having to rely on public transportation (or the extra time wasted) when I want to go explore the city. Not to mention spending money on Uber’s for these explorations, and then there’s rental cars fees when you really want to get away.
Renting cars isn’t cheap (well currently I’m sure it is) either. A 48 hour rental for a weekend trip will still be 3 days in fees. Just the overall freedom is well worth the price of a Starbucks or a Uber ride a few miles away.
To each their own, but keep telling yourself you’re saving $6,000-$10,000 a year by not owning a car.
I felt that car maintenance yearly cost was a bit high, as well. Regardless, I'm as frugal as it comes. I wouldn't get anything fancy. It doesn't take a lot to make me happy, and I don't spend a lot of money on "stuff". If/when I get a car, I can see myself using it minimally, and hope to rely on my bike/walking if I'm able to live in a more walkable area. I see the car being used for hiking/road trips, and when people come to visit to take them around town. For my daily activities/errands, I could use my bike (for the most part). Looks like Hillcrest/North Park/South Park is about a half hour bike ride away from Ocean Beach coastal area, closer if I were to bike to Mission Bay, and that's an easy ride for me.
As long as I'm in walking distance to a coffee shop (for work) and other essential stores, I'll be happy!
$6-10K a year to maintain a car? Why do you always use extreme examples for car expenses when making an argument not to have one? How come everyone has a car payment when the average age of cars on the road in America is 12 years old, and increasing every year?
I still have a 21 year old truck that was my primary vehicle for a dozen years or so. I paid $4K cash for it when it was 6 years old and drove it minimally as I lived and worked at the beach. I have all the repairs bills in the glove box, including tires, and I would be shocked if it was more than $3K, probably closer to $2K. This doesn’t include gas and oil changes, but those were few as I’d typically drove only a few thousand miles a year back then. One year it was only 1,200. I also had low insurance and registration fees. Well under $500 collectively annually, and that’s being very liberal. You have a smog check every two years, but that’s in the noise.
I did the math, and went on the high end, and it cost me $1,650 a year to maintain it with gas/oil for the 30K I put on it over 12 years. More like $1,475 if you factor in the couple grand I could get in a day if I were to sell it now. Obviously that will go up if you’re commuting with gas and repairs, but that scenario doesn’t apply to the OP, and lots of other car owners.
Let’s say you like to get out more, but still don’t need it to commute, and make it $2K a year. I don’t know, but $5.50 a day to have the luxury of not having to rely on public transportation (or the extra time wasted) when I want to go explore the city. Not to mention spending money on Uber’s for these explorations, and then there’s rental cars fees when you really want to get away.
Renting cars isn’t cheap (well currently I’m sure it is) either. A 48 hour rental for a weekend trip will still be 3 days in fees. Just the overall freedom is well worth the price of a Starbucks or a Uber ride a few miles away.
To each their own, but keep telling yourself you’re saving $6,000-$10,000 a year by not owning a car.
But the OP says she enjoys nature and hiking. Since the best of those activities are in the outskirts of the county, not having a car would greatly limit those activities.
So do I...
Good thing humans develop friendships with people who have similar interests. Unless you are hell-bent on hiking alone, you could hitch a ride from someone else or split the cost of a rental.
I've been doing it for 8 years. It's not impossible.
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And if someone is spending upwards of $6-10k on car maintenance like you say, they're doing something wrong.
" According to AAA, For vehicles driven 15,000 miles a year, average car ownership costs were $8,469 a year, or about $706 a month, in 2017"
Maybe I'm using actual data reported from Dept of Labor and AAA?
Even if you are able to keep your expenses to the bare minimum (maybe ~$300)...the difference between $1200 and $1500 in San Diego is the difference between needing a roommate or not.
I'm not sure what you mean by "making matters worse"--I don't think it's a bad thing that I don't know a ton about the area just yet...but you're right, I haven't spent a lot of time in SD. I was just there in January, as well as a few years back. I plan to stay with my friend in the coming weeks, for a week or 2 to explore the neighborhoods more, and get a better sense of everything.
San Diego is a big place. With unlimited options, you could be looking for a long long time. When we moved here almost 20 years ago, my wife had a fixed work location and she wanted to live within 15 miles of her work location. I gave myself 30 days to find a decent rental property in a very defined area. We closed the rental deal on the 28th day.
I'm picky and my wife is even pickier. Just because we found a place to rent and submitted an application, we had to keep looking. San Diego is a hot rental market and landlords can be very picky with their tenants. In several cases, we were rejected for the most trivial of reasons: no job history in San Diego, a 10 lb older dog, no landlord references (we hadn't rented in 20 years), I couldn't maintain the owner's 100+ potted plants, my cars were not registered in CA, etc.
Good thing humans develop friendships with people who have similar interests. Unless you are hell-bent on hiking alone, you could hitch a ride from someone else or split the cost of a rental.
I've been doing it for 8 years. It's not impossible.
" According to AAA, For vehicles driven 15,000 miles a year, average car ownership costs were $8,469 a year, or about $706 a month, in 2017"
Most Americans have no grasp of the true cost of owning a car. Don't forget to include it into the price of your rent or paying for parking elsewhere.
Come on, you’re smarter than this? The link you provide is for those with a NEW car payment of $563 a month. If that’s not being disingenuous to make your point I don’t know what is? How about providing numbers for those owning cars that match the average age of those on the road of 12 years with no payments, or those with “newer” cars that are in the $200 range?
Let’s see? If it cost someone $706 a month to maintain their car at the average of 15K miles a year, but it has a $563 monthly payment, how much does it really cost? I’ll let you do the simple math there.
So now paying for parking in your rent or paying for it elsewhere is included, ok? You might have to pay for parking in beaches in LA, or pay to actually go to the beach in places on the East Coast (criminal), but the last time I checked it was free here? Outside of games and concerts I only throw some change in a meter from time to time for parking.
On that note, why is it that transit costs are always downplayed for those arguing against cars? Yeah your monthly local MTS might not be too bad, but those train trips everywhere, commuter trains, and especially Uber rides add up quick.
Like I said last post, to each their own, and keep telling yourself you’re saving $6-$10K a year by not owing a car.
Come on, you’re smarter than this? The link you provide is for those with a NEW car payment of $563 a month. If that’s not being disingenuous to make your point I don’t know what is? How about providing numbers for those owning cars that match the average age of those on the road of 12 years with no payments, or those with “newer” cars that are in the $200 range?
Let’s see? If it cost someone $706 a month to maintain their car at the average of 15K miles a year, but it has a $563 monthly payment, how much does it really cost? I’ll let you do the simple math there.
Well it says, the average used car payment is still $372....so....
You do realize that the upfront cost of the car is still a cost, right? It's not like it's just free money that doesn't go into the overall cost of owning your car, even if you buy it with cash. Buying a used car with cash for $6K and keeping it for 5 years is still $100/month in cost over that period, not to mention the additional maintenance it would require because it's probably a junk car at that point. Burning through your savings to not have a monthly car payment doesn't mean that there isn't a monthly cost to owning your car.
Honestly, are you suggesting that car ownership only costs $140/month? Insurance alone already accounts for much of that...
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So now paying for parking in your rent or paying for it elsewhere is included, ok? You might have to pay for parking in beaches in LA, or pay to actually go to the beach in places on the East Coast (criminal), but the last time I checked it was free here? Outside of games and concerts I only throw some change in a meter from time to time for parking.
Is that not part of the cost of owning a car? You do realize that many rentals charge for parking, either directly through monthly fees or bundled with the cost of the unit, right?
You could certainly find on-street parking, which is "free". Not sure how easy it will be given a tight housing market and the concentration of multi-family units in specific areas, meaning limited on-street parking supply.
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On that note, why is it that transit costs are always downplayed for those arguing against cars? Yeah your monthly local MTS might not be too bad, but those train trips everywhere, commuter trains, and especially Uber rides add up quick.
"train trips everywhere"....what? $72 roundtrip to LA for a train is comparable to driving. Going to LA every single weekend by train in a month ($288) is still cheaper than actually owning a car. Not sure anyone needs to do that though...
Right...because people with cars don't take uber too? Airport? nightlife?
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Like I said last post, to each their own, and keep telling yourself you’re saving $6-$10K a year by not owing a car.
I provided the link so the individual could estimate their costs. At the minimum you are going to pay $300/month for your car (insurance, gas, car payment, maintenance, registration, parking). With a base budget of $1200, that is the difference between living alone vs. having roommates, or living inland vs. along the coast neighborhood.
You get to choose two: car, live alone, or live near coast. I'm making those trade-offs clear. I'm trying to help them understand their choices.
Do you not agree with that determination? That owning a car will ultimately require you to sacrifice either living near the coast or having your own place?
Personally, if I was moving across the country to experience the San Diego lifestyle, I'd prioritize living in my own place near the coast...at least for the first year or two. You'll have plenty to explore and many options for doing so without committing yourself to car ownership, which is actually a hassle in of itself. It's not impossible, as many of the CD posters make it out to be. Bike, walk, transit, car rental or carshare, uber, hitch a ride with friends. Plenty of options.
Last edited by newgensandiego; 05-29-2020 at 08:37 AM..
Buy a older used Honda or Toyota and Problem solved
Bought my youngest son a 2006 Toyota Matrix with 140k miles last year. He’s been to the Bay Area twice and to central Oregon once to visit a college. Car is at 161k as of this morning And he’s done nothing but gas in the thing, oh and a oil change, and spark plugs the day we bought it.
We paid $3800 out the door. No one needs to buy a new car here in San Diego, just be smart with your purchase
Buy a older used Honda or Toyota and Problem solved
Bought my youngest son a 2006 Toyota Matrix with 140k miles last year. He’s been to the Bay Area twice and to central Oregon once to visit a college. Car is at 161k as of this morning And he’s done nothing but gas in the thing, oh and a oil change, and spark plugs the day we bought it.
We paid $3800 out the door. No one needs to buy a new car here in San Diego, just be smart with your purchase
That's what I did...had a 20-year old Camry. Thing ran forever and I did my best to keep expenses to a minimum.
But when all is said and done...the average person is still going to be paying $300-400/month minimum to own the car when you take into account all costs during the lifetime of your use of the car.
People need to understand this. Paying $3800 for a car- a depreciating asset- that you use for 5 years is still $63/month on the cost of the car alone...not including any maintenance/upkeep, insurance, gas or other expenses (which is what's actually expensive in this case). A regional transit pass is $72 per month... a bargain frankly for unlimited travel.
So again, if owning a vehicle that spends the majority of its time sitting unused is a priority, then forego living in your own place anywhere near the coast. That is literally the decision.
Well it says, the average used car payment is still $372....so....
You do realize that the upfront cost of the car is still a cost, right? It's not like it's just free money that doesn't go into the overall cost of owning your car, even if you buy it with cash. Buying a used car with cash for $6K and keeping it for 5 years is still $100/month in cost over that period, not to mention the additional maintenance it would require because it's probably a junk car at that point. Burning through your savings to not have a monthly car payment doesn't mean that there isn't a monthly cost to owning your car.
Honestly, are you suggesting that car ownership only costs $140/month? Insurance alone already accounts for much of that...
Is that not part of the cost of owning a car?[/b] You do realize that many rentals charge for parking, either directly through monthly fees or bundled with the cost of the unit, right?[/b]
You could certainly find on-street parking, which is "free". Not sure how easy it will be given a tight housing market and the concentration of multi-family units in specific areas, meaning limited on-street parking supply.
"train trips everywhere"....what? $72 roundtrip to LA for a train is comparable to driving. Going to LA every single weekend by train in a month ($288) is still cheaper than actually owning a car. Not sure anyone needs to do that though...
Right...because people with cars don't take uber too? Airport? nightlife?
I provided the link so the individual could estimate their costs. At the minimum you are going to pay $300/month for your car (insurance, gas, car payment, maintenance, registration, parking). With a base budget of $1200, that is the difference between living alone vs. having roommates, or living inland vs. along the coast neighborhood.
You get to choose two: car, live alone, or live near coast. I'm making those trade-offs clear. I'm trying to help them understand their choices.
Do you not agree with that determination? That owning a car will ultimately require you to sacrifice either living near the coast or having your own place?
Personally, if I was moving across the country to experience the San Diego lifestyle, I'd prioritize living in my own place near the coast...at least for the first year or two. You'll have plenty to explore and many options for doing so without committing yourself to car ownership, which is actually a hassle in of itself. It's not impossible, as many of the CD posters make it out to be. Bike, walk, transit, car rental or carshare, uber, hitch a ride with friends. Plenty of options.
Of course I know the upfront cost is factored in. Did you not read my previous response to you where I did just that with the cost of maintaining my truck over its life?
Close to $140 a month for insurance? Have you ever owned a car, or do you have a lousy record? I have full coverage on 2 late model vehicles (1 car, 1 suv), full coverage on a restored 1960’s muscle car, and basic coverage on my truck (no collision) and I pay $1,800 a year, or $150 a month.
Obviously apartments with parking will go for more than those that don’t, but it’s not like you get a discount if you don’t own a car? Maybe this is the case at some newer complexes to attract renters, but by and large it’s not. Yeah, I suppose you could rent out your spot if you’re a loner, but everyone I knew at the beach who didn’t have a car kept their space available for friends and family.
In what world is is a $72 train ticket to LA comparable to driving? Even with a car that has standard gas mileage of 25mpg, gas will be about half that. What if two of you want to go, or three or four?
Yes, people with cars may still use Uber for nightlife (but so do those without cars), my point was more towards everyday errands and getting around. Besides that, before Uber we used to use this thing called a designated driver. No need to spend money on an Uber if you go this route, or if you’re only having a glass of wine or two with dinner.
As for still needing Uber for the airport, the beautiful thing about San Diego’s location, and ease of getting in/out, is it’s always easy to get friends (especially family) to give you rides. This isn’t the case for those that are headaches to deal with, or out in BFE. Besides that, if you have a car you can always let your roommate, neighbor, friend, etc use it to take you to/from if they don’t have a car.
Yeah car ownership would prevent someone with a limited budget from living near the coast or by themselves, but only if they wanted a new(er) requiring a payment. It wouldn’t prevent someone that had a older car already paid off. Even with amortizing the price you paid it’s still gonna be in the $150 a month ballpark, assuming you’re not commuting. $150 a month is not going out a couple of times for drinks, or making your own coffee and/or lunch. Finding an extra $150 a month is easy to do when you’re single.
Car ownership a hassle? I mean it was for me living in Mission Beach when I had no parking at one place, but short of that it’s never been. Of course you can get by without a car here, I’ve done it myself, but I wouldn’t want to. There’s so much to see and do and wasting time on transit, paying for Uber’s, overpaying for rental cars and trains, and relying on friends for rides would get old quick, and limit what you can do.
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