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Old 10-26-2020, 12:57 PM
 
332 posts, read 629,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joosoon View Post
Districts are following county and state guidelines as part of their reopening plans. There's a flowchart Vista Unified and others are using. Yeah, it may seem extreme to quarantine all those contacts, but that's the only way to be sure the chain of transmission is broken. If the policies are too loose, one case leads to hundreds very easily in a full capacity school. Too many isolated cases and the school shuts down. That's sub-optimal for everyone. That's why a split roster makes more sense right now. You just can't keep distancing to the minimum in that environment. If those classes were limited to those levels, they might've been able to do what you're saying and just isolate the one positive case.


Here's what one of the UCSD experts said in an interview on that exact topic regarding the incident at Mission Vista High:






If you get a chance you should read or listen to the whole thing. He makes a lot of interesting comments.
And two weeks later when all those quarantined are back, another kid may come into school after contracting it at Walmart. You can't stop this. You can only hope to contain it (and not by extreme lockdowns) and those most at risk need to be extra vigilant with themselves (wash hands, don't touch face, watch who you come in contact with, etc.).

This is an ENDEMIC...meaning it isn't going away and we'll have to live with it forever. Just like every other virus strain and disease in history (besides smallpox which is the only one that has truly been eradicated).

We have to get the kids back to school and forget about the plexi-glass, extreme distancing, and mandatory masks. Otherwise it can be years before a decent vaccine is implemented and our high school kids especially don't have years to wait.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:12 PM
 
274 posts, read 315,634 times
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I think we all want to protect the teachers, we don't want anyone to get ill. What most parents want is a "worst case" plan if there is never a legitimate vaccine or herd immunity. Are we remote learning or part time remote learning for 1 year, 2 years, 10 years? There is no plan, just playing it day by day. I know it's impossible to predict, but it should not be impossible to plan for the worst.

It also rubs parents the wrong way that the schools/teachers seem to slow roll everything and do the bare minimum with this. For example, once a district is in an allowable tier to return to in person instruction, they need 2-4 weeks to "plan" the return. Shouldn't that planning have been done in the spring/summer/fall when they were working 0-2 hours a day? Also, is it really necessary to take the entire first week of school just to do material pickup? Can't we get that the week before school starts? Also, is it really necessary to take 1/2 day teacher development days as per the original schedule? Shouldn't we push through that given all the other time off? I can't help but think that it's in the union contract to get those half days, so by hell or high water they're getting those half days.

Even the most liberal parents I know are starting to go against their tribe on this one, wanting the kids back at school ASAP rather than erring on the side of isolating everyone at home. I think it would go a long way if the teachers in general would just show some faith that yes, they really do want to be back to teaching. The anectodal evidence from ours and friends experiences is that they're mostly doing the bare minimum even from the safety of distance teaching.

I'm sure plenty of teachers want to be back in person, but it's got to be all of them or none of them as they won't go against the union.
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Old 10-26-2020, 09:07 PM
 
Location: San Diego Native
4,433 posts, read 2,390,968 times
Reputation: 4801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartanacus View Post
This is an ENDEMIC...meaning it isn't going away and we'll have to live with it forever. Just like every other virus strain and disease in history (besides smallpox which is the only one that has truly been eradicated).



It's a little early to call it, but I've said so before here too that this may become endemic in which case we should plan for that contingency. But I don't think we can rule out the ability to beat back the spread enough to knock it down to manageable levels, even without a vaccine. We're not even a year into its existence as a virus. Looking at covid's cousin SARS, it *did* go away using a lot of the same measures, but then it wasn't as contagious either.



I don't like distance learning any more than the next parent and I get the frustrations with some of the spotty coverage for limited in-person in some districts. But working in schools, I also get that these concerns aren't unfounded. The resources to keep everything just good enough to be passable aren't really there. I don't think it's asking too much to limit class sizes and split kids into groups on different days to avoid as much co-mingling between them as possible. Yes, that means your kid might only be there two days a week but that beats shutting down schools entirely once outbreaks force that hand. And there's absolutely no reason to get rid of mask requirements. For weeks now, I've watched five-year-olds manage to wear them without fuss so if they can do it, everyone else can. It's a small inconvenience that the experts say will make a big difference in the classrooms. I sort of agree with you about the plexiglass (or in the case of Vista Unified, sheet plastic and sticks to hold it up) but that's only if class sizes are brought down to allow better distancing. It's also contingent on the air filtration provided because not every class is totally equipped with it yet. If we can't even do that, nobody has any business demanding schools open to full schedules, let alone the safer alternative of split days, etc.
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Old 10-26-2020, 09:18 PM
 
Location: San Diego Native
4,433 posts, read 2,390,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blockzilla View Post
It also rubs parents the wrong way that the schools/teachers seem to slow roll everything and do the bare minimum with this. For example, once a district is in an allowable tier to return to in person instruction, they need 2-4 weeks to "plan" the return. Shouldn't that planning have been done in the spring/summer/fall when they were working 0-2 hours a day?

Well, if you think teachers were working 0-2 hours in Spring, especially right after the shtf and they had to slap together an online model in a weekend, I'll safely assume you don't know any personally. I'm not trying to be a poophead about this, just that being married to one and watching them pour tons of time and energy into it, I can tell you in at least one case you are very, very wrong.



Quote:
Also, is it really necessary to take the entire first week of school just to do material pickup? Can't we get that the week before school starts? Also, is it really necessary to take 1/2 day teacher development days as per the original schedule? Shouldn't we push through that given all the other time off? I can't help but think that it's in the union contract to get those half days, so by hell or high water they're getting those half days.
Once more, the logistics you think amount to nothing actually took a lot to put in place. Materials pickup in my district was an all-hands-on-deck program. There's a lot more to this than you might think.


Quote:
Even the most liberal parents I know are starting to go against their tribe on this one, wanting the kids back at school ASAP rather than erring on the side of isolating everyone at home. I think it would go a long way if the teachers in general would just show some faith that yes, they really do want to be back to teaching. The anectodal evidence from ours and friends experiences is that they're mostly doing the bare minimum even from the safety of distance teaching.

I'm sure plenty of teachers want to be back in person, but it's got to be all of them or none of them as they won't go against the union.
Same as above, I know a lot of teachers and you'd probably be surprised how much more work online class is than normal. Also, like it or not, a post-covid return to school requires contractual negotiation. SDUSD and SDEA collaborated with third party experts to put together a safe return plan and those experts raised the bar significantly higher than what the state requires for what they thought would be the best way to go about in-person learning. So do we want to actually use the science or just wing it? Also, keep in mind that teachers aren't calling the shots here, it's the districts who make the big decisions.


We will get back to normal eventually. But we need to take a measured approach or else we'll be right back where we started last spring.
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Old 10-27-2020, 12:38 AM
 
274 posts, read 315,634 times
Reputation: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by joosoon View Post
Well, if you think teachers were working 0-2 hours in Spring, especially right after the shtf and they had to slap together an online model in a weekend, I'll safely assume you don't know any personally. I'm not trying to be a poophead about this, just that being married to one and watching them pour tons of time and energy into it, I can tell you in at least one case you are very, very wrong.




Once more, the logistics you think amount to nothing actually took a lot to put in place. Materials pickup in my district was an all-hands-on-deck program. There's a lot more to this than you might think.



Same as above, I know a lot of teachers and you'd probably be surprised how much more work online class is than normal. Also, like it or not, a post-covid return to school requires contractual negotiation. SDUSD and SDEA collaborated with third party experts to put together a safe return plan and those experts raised the bar significantly higher than what the state requires for what they thought would be the best way to go about in-person learning. So do we want to actually use the science or just wing it? Also, keep in mind that teachers aren't calling the shots here, it's the districts who make the big decisions.


We will get back to normal eventually. But we need to take a measured approach or else we'll be right back where we started last spring.
I know 3 teachers between EUSD elementary and Poway high, that’s what I based my assessment on. They’re enjoying the “break” for the most part. I know a lot goes into planning, and so should they. That’s my point, I’d it takes 2-4 weeks to plan the in person return, then go ahead and plan it early to maximize instruction time. If you know it takes a week to pass out materials, then pass them out a week BEFORE school starts. We’re all flexing around this unprecedented situation, I think maybe they could start up a week earlier just this once vs. toeing the contractual union line. The EUSD kindergarten teacher I know makes $145k/yr, I suppose you might assume I’m making that up too? I only mention that as someone earlier said they were underpaid and we should double the salaries. I think that’s a reasonable wage for 8-9 months of work with half days every Friday.
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Old 10-27-2020, 03:38 PM
 
Location: San Diego Native
4,433 posts, read 2,390,968 times
Reputation: 4801
Quote:
Originally Posted by blockzilla View Post
I know 3 teachers between EUSD elementary and Poway high, that’s what I based my assessment on. They’re enjoying the “break” for the most part. I know a lot goes into planning, and so should they. That’s my point, I’d it takes 2-4 weeks to plan the in person return, then go ahead and plan it early to maximize instruction time. If you know it takes a week to pass out materials, then pass them out a week BEFORE school starts. We’re all flexing around this unprecedented situation, I think maybe they could start up a week earlier just this once vs. toeing the contractual union line. The EUSD kindergarten teacher I know makes $145k/yr, I suppose you might assume I’m making that up too? I only mention that as someone earlier said they were underpaid and we should double the salaries. I think that’s a reasonable wage for 8-9 months of work with half days every Friday.

I didn't say you were making anything up. I was trying to give a boots-on-the-ground perspective since I've been involved in some of the stuff you're talking about. As for EUSD (I assume you mean Escondido), I believe they're one of, if not the lowest paid districts in the county so I'll assume the K teacher you're talking about is on one of the highest steps and has tons of years in.
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Old 10-27-2020, 03:47 PM
 
Location: San Diego Native
4,433 posts, read 2,390,968 times
Reputation: 4801
SDUSD announced that any move into what they call phase two won't happen until at least after winter break.
I'm predicting there's going to be a lot of grumbling about that news. At a press conference today, Richard Berrera mentioned that the impetus for putting together the panel of UCSD experts to help draft a safe reopening plan was that the county and state's own guidelines were inconsistent and incomplete. That's been an issue since day one and this is about the only instance where the people promising to employ "science" in the decision making actually did.... and people are mad about that.
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Old 10-27-2020, 04:32 PM
 
274 posts, read 315,634 times
Reputation: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by joosoon View Post
I didn't say you were making anything up. I was trying to give a boots-on-the-ground perspective since I've been involved in some of the stuff you're talking about. As for EUSD (I assume you mean Escondido), I believe they're one of, if not the lowest paid districts in the county so I'll assume the K teacher you're talking about is on one of the highest steps and has tons of years in.
Encinitas Union
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Old 10-28-2020, 10:15 AM
 
Location: San Diego Native
4,433 posts, read 2,390,968 times
Reputation: 4801
So now Vista Unified was forced to close Mission Vista High completely for two weeks because of another positive case and have adapted stricter closure protocols for all schools in the district. This is exactly what I warned about the other day. I'd much rather have a smaller in-person program which keeps schools out of these situations, than full classrooms for full daily school sessions which inevitably result in two week closures.
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Old 10-29-2020, 01:05 PM
 
Location: San Diego Native
4,433 posts, read 2,390,968 times
Reputation: 4801
Now Escondido's turn, although it looks like they're using a more phased-in plan which is smarter than some of the others. But still, that's a large chunk of staff forced to quarantine in one school.
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