11-04-2008, 08:11 AM
Location: San Diego native.
470 posts, read
1,702,913 times
Reputation: 118
I'm straight, and married. Every person I know who will vote yes on 8 believes gay people are immoral and abnormal. I vehemently disagree. I may not understand the attraction between same sex partners, but that does not entitle me to exercise the extreme selfishness of demanding that people love like I do in order to marry as I can.
I do believe people who vote yes on 8 ARE BIGOTS. They know it too but it's not socially acceptable to admit it. Because bottom line, the bigots don't care that the children and partners of gay couples are disadvantaged because they cannot marry, or their currently legal marriage license will be revoked.
There are over 1,000 rights available to legally married couples. Even if Prop. 8 does not pass, there is more work to be done to align federal rights with state's rights.
A bigot is a person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding state of mind. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable.
(Wikipedia definition - handy)
Last edited by Suzer; 11-04-2008 at 08:29 AM ..
11-04-2008, 08:16 AM
Location: San Diego native.
470 posts, read
1,702,913 times
Reputation: 118
For those of you support Prop. 8, I would really be interested in hearing your point of view on homosexuality. Publicly, and without restraint and revision.
11-04-2008, 09:47 AM
Location: San Diego
5,026 posts, read
15,246,232 times
Reputation: 4887
I just don't get why people get to vote on whether someone gets to marry the love of their life. That shouldn't even be an issue. I was in Hillcrest on Saturday night and stopped at the No on 8 Headquarters to get my stickers. Some great volunteers working there. Get out there today and vote NO on 8!!
11-04-2008, 11:15 AM
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland / But still having San Diego / Eastlake withdrawal damn it !!!
340 posts, read
1,407,794 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sav858
I just want to start off by saying I am not defending anything MisterMark has said with regards to Prop 8 to you or in general. If you're gay this is going to be an emotional issue and I understand how some people who may not be so extreme or partisan normally would get so with this issue.
Both Mayor Jerry Sanders and VP Dick Cheney have reversed their opposition to gay marriage because of their lesbian daughters. I always think it is a good thing to put yourself in someone else's shoes to at least gain perspective on an issue. If this goes against your fundamental religious beliefs then so be it, I cannot and will not argue against people's deeply held religious beliefs. With that said, I just want to ask you one simple question: If your child was gay would you support allowing them to get married or not?? YES or NO? I've asked this question on the CA forum and only one person responded and instead of actually answering the question tried to twist it around on me and never actually answered it at all and refused to answer it after I asked it again. This is a simple yes or no answer, feel free to explain your answer too whether it be yes or no. I am just trying to understand where opposing views are coming from. Some Yes on 8 people are straight up bigots and haters and I don't even bother with them b/c its pointless. But people like yourself, who may have different political opinions than me, I do not consider bigots and am just trying to see where they are coming from so at the very least I can agree to disagree. So I ask for you to answer honestly, if your child was gay would you support them being allowed to get married or not? YES or NO?
Hi Sav,
Like you I always like to hear different views , not necessarily because they will change my mind or thoughts totally , but sometimes there can be an argument that does resonate one way or the others from my original option. I think that's one reason I loved the San Diego area and Eastlake area where we lived for its diversity. Politically, culturally and for the most part I found the whole area to be very laid back whatever political ilk you are, which I can't always say about the East coast back here in the DC area.
But to your question and I've taken alot of thought of how I would handle that. I'm 41 years young/old(got a late start) and have two daughters that are 4 and 5 months old.They are the joys of my life. It would be easy for me to say at this point that I would not give my blessing to them if they were to be gay and wanted to enter into a committed same sex marriage.
The fact of the matter is although I personally wouldn't "perfer" that scenario and I don't plan to be a in your face parent who determines there children life for them. So I would go against my personal beliefs and give my blessing and approval.
But I would also like to say that if one of my daughters came to me and told me they wanted to marry a certain man that they knew I really wasn't crazy about or didn't think was right for them. Yet I knew she was head over heels for this guy and it wouldn't really matter what anyone said , again I would give my blessing and hope for the best.
There of course would be alot of soul searching if it ever comes to that, but I'm convinced that is what I would probably do.
Now if the next question from someone would be : Well then would you support "same sex marriage to become law"? My answer would still be no and this is why.
Although Im Catholic raised , I'm really only a twice a year Catholic praciticing at least. I have my own personal faith and beliefs that are really not always inline with the church , but I don't try to change them to please me.
I believe marriage is not taken seriously these days by any gender. That marriage should be taken more seriously between a man and women and be given the place in society it once had. It seems that couples these days so easily give up a married at the drop of a hat when the going gets a little tough. Thats so wrong especially when children are involved.
Anywat my 5 month little girl is crying and needs to be fed, but SAV I hope I answered your question. I guess the ultimate answer was yes I would give up my principles to make my daughters/sons happy. But I still wouldn't personally want the law changed either way.
Hopefully we can agree to disagree.
One last thing, if same sex marriage passes today or 5 years from now. I don't think it will be that end of the world either.
11-04-2008, 11:34 AM
Location: SF Bay Area
18,967 posts, read
32,455,531 times
Reputation: 13615
Bunky,
Thank you for your honest response and I see where you're coming from. That's good that you've actually thought about this before, most people don't even want to bother thinking about that situation. So it seems like your opposition to gay marriage isn't that rigid in the sense you aren't 100% against it but overall would rather not have the definition changed, at the moment at least. Personally I think their is a little doubt there and if the situation actually arose you might support gay marriage for your daughter, but that is just what I think and its completely hypothetical of course. I do agree that marriage is not taken that seriously today, although I don't think gay marriage will change anything with regards to that overall. Anyways, thanks for the perspective.
Last edited by sav858; 11-04-2008 at 11:46 AM ..
11-04-2008, 11:42 AM
Location: San Diego
5,026 posts, read
15,246,232 times
Reputation: 4887
The divorce rate in this country is over 50%. Since the only recognized marriages right now(for the most part) are heterosexual ones, we can safely assume heterosexuals are failing at this whole marriage thing. Maybe we can learn a thing or two about long, loving commitments from the homosexuals. How many of you that voted yes on 8 are on your 2nd or 3rd marriage? Divorce affects your children more than seeing two happy people together, regardless of sex.
11-04-2008, 11:53 AM
Location: SF Bay Area
18,967 posts, read
32,455,531 times
Reputation: 13615
I understand how some people feel that marriage is between a man and a woman. But others feel it's between 2 consenting adults regardless of gender. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs but the govt shouldn't be taking sides like this.
There is NO law on gay marriage at all currently. The recent court ruling just stated you can't ban same sex couples from getting married. If you don't want to believe gay people are married then fine, that is your prerogative and you don't have to recognize their marriage. But I think it's unfair to push those beliefs onto others who do not agree with that. Live and let live.
Just realize this is enacting more government control over people's personal lives. Prop 8 is MORE govt, not less like they claim. Do some of you that support Prop 8 fundamentally believe the govt has the right to tell you what to do with your personal lives?
11-04-2008, 02:12 PM
26,680 posts, read
28,581,632 times
Reputation: 7943
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bunky3301
Although Im Catholic raised , I'm really only a twice a year Catholic praciticing at least. I have my own personal faith and beliefs that are really not always inline with the church , but I don't try to change them to please me.
Did you know that the Catholic Church is against birth control and even against having an orgasm outside of marriage? Should those positions be written into our laws too?
11-04-2008, 03:22 PM
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland / But still having San Diego / Eastlake withdrawal damn it !!!
340 posts, read
1,407,794 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AnUnidentifiedMale
Did you know that the Catholic Church is against birth control and even against having an orgasm outside of marriage? Should those positions be written into our laws too?
Feel free to write that law if you wish, but I wouldn't vote for it sir. If you read my quote instead of just seeing "red" when you saw the word "Catholic" you wouldn't have written your post.
It always take the enjoyment out of a good debate when posters use knee jerk reactions.
11-04-2008, 10:57 PM
Location: Oakland, CA
858 posts, read
2,229,765 times
Reputation: 368
Sorry because it's not related to San Diego, but congrats to Mr. President Obama!
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Occupied housing units (%)
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Industry diversity
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People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
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People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)