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Old 01-02-2009, 09:47 PM
 
63 posts, read 283,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassberto View Post
That's a simplistic and almost antagonistic response. You also neglected the wealth effect of dramatic booms in housing equity and a well-connected old-boy network. LA and SF are both in California by the way. No "web protocols" have come out of San Diego either, unless you count Divx which is about to tank.








Who cares if it's high-tech, low-tech, or no-tech. You absolutely don't need access to the limited 'good old boy' network here. The point is: anyone can make it here, if they truly want to, and are willing to work hard. It's as simple as that. Fact is, most folks don't want it badly enough to actually do it. They merely try to copy other's methods, but without the real gut level work. I'm not talking about working your ass off at Rubio's to make manager. (although I do know Ralph, and he worked his butt off for a long time) I'm talking about heading out in a direction most folks are afraid to go. I'm talking about being professionally creative and finding a vehicle of success. Fine with me if the bulk of people are happy with a "lower" level of lifestyle. Great. Glad they found there level and like it.

For those whom that's not enough, this is a great place to achieve success, whatever your definition is...
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:00 PM
 
9,523 posts, read 30,417,314 times
Reputation: 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivenhain View Post
I'm talking about being professionally creative and finding a vehicle of success. Fine with me if the bulk of people are happy with a "lower" level of lifestyle. Great. Glad they found there level and like it.
I think you are making a bit of a black/white comparison where reality is more subtle. However I think you've inadvertently stated the key weakness with San Diego's economy. If the choice is either Rubios manager or fabulously wealthy entrepreneur, then this city is unsustainable for the majority. It's the stuff in-between that really makes a city what it is, and there are already 3+ million people here who need to support themselves and their families.

The great thing about NYC (pre-bust of course) is that for every hedge fund manager making millions there are thousands of analysts making 200k+. In LA, for every superstar or mega-producer there are armies of union tradesman and highly skilled professionals getting a slice too. Cities like Boston, Austin, Seattle have more breadth. Remember entrepreneurs don't really need San Diego ... it's just a nice place to do business. When you speak to people outside of San Diego... do they say "thats a great city for business"? I'm thinking it's more along the lines of "the weather is great there".

San Diego is on track to be a resort city with a population of retirees, the wealthy, and a massive underclass. Is that really what a world-class, innovative city looks like? Is that the city you want San Diego to be? I don't know if there is any gate big enough to keep Olivenhain free of the trouble that such inequity can create.

I don't see any problem with the truth: It's expensive to live here because it's a nice place to live. But trying to sell San Diego as having some sort of unique commercial character beyond biotech, wireless, and the navy does seem a little silly.

Last edited by NYSD1995; 01-02-2009 at 10:17 PM..
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:07 PM
hsw
 
2,144 posts, read 7,148,671 times
Reputation: 1540
Like many regions, SD has a heterogenous economy....generally a low-income, blue-collar region w/a thin veneer of affluent retirees and random entrepreneurs, much like OC's Irvine/NewportCoast...agree, people are paying, by choice, for the superb weather and topography of either region

Lots of SD money is really seen in form of wkend/retirement houses of many who made their money in some other city like Chicago or Dallas....and local entrepreneurs of various sorts (Qualcomm perhaps most notable)....jobs at most tech cos. or biotech cos. are fairly mediocre pay for professionals ($150Kish/yr w/any serious wealth upside due to stock options and other stock comp)

Regions w/notably high W-2 incomes tend to be regions like NYC, w/powerful investment banking and hedge fund industries (even after The Meltdown), where many (1000s) mediocre (by stds of industry) 30ish yo guys have 7-fig annual incomes....and superstars have higher incomes and net worths at relatively young ages

Classic theme of nearly any region that attracts many affluent and/or ambitious "immigrants" from rest of US/RoW....many "natives" resent the competition....but it's a free country and competition is what makes any city/country/industry great....and there are many obvious reasons why COL is so allegedly cheap in places like Dallas....among other things, many clearly value near-perfect weather and topography highly....basic supply and demand often determines prices and COL
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:21 PM
hsw
 
2,144 posts, read 7,148,671 times
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Agree w/your point Sassberto on need for a deep pool of well-paid, well-educated professionals in region....both to serve as a deep tax base for region...and for those w/kids who prefer such people as neighbors who may focus on educational excellence in suburban schools, etc

Goes to nature of regions that single professionals may choose to reside....and where professionals w/kids choose to reside....SD tends to be weak for either

Industries that are high-paying (and favor the usual high COL regions) seem to struggle to attract talent to random "resort-like" areas like SD/OC/Scottsdale...or middle-manager heavens like Dall/Hou/Atl...even BH is viewed as more of a wkend playground for wealthy, young retirees than as a place to easily attract many young financiers (or tech guys), simply b/c of lack of career liquidity in LA region (vs SiliconValley or Manhattan)
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:29 PM
 
9,523 posts, read 30,417,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsw View Post
Agree w/your point Sassberto on need for a deep pool of well-paid, well-educated professionals in region....both to serve as a deep tax base for region...and for those w/kids who prefer such people as neighbors who may focus on educational excellence in suburban schools, etc
To expand it further it goes even beyond the traditional professional classes - LA and Seattle for example have massive ports which drive a huge non-white-collar economy. Most of the eastern seaboard still has at least some large-scale maritime industry. Those economies create opportunity at the lower levels which pay well, better than San Diego's tourist industry with it's low-paying food service and retail jobs. In my opinion the best opportunity San Diego has for a blue-collar worker is the Navy, and that is just not going to be an option for a lot of people. Back on Long Island, the guy who does our cesspool owns 3 houses and is thriving. In San Diego, those same guys are struggling, laid off from residential construction jobs that once allowed them to make 6 figure incomes.

I do a lot of hiring where I work and I see the salaries we offer. We're lowballing because we know we can and we get away with it. But the good people usually move on and as a result there is a real talent crunch in San Diego. I work for one of the largest public corps in the county. Many of my absolutely mediocre high school buddies made obscene money as analysts on wall street. Those opportunities just aren't here. And San Diego just seems to be continuing to make decisions to benefit tourists and developers at the expense of it's residents ... so I don't see anything improving, just creating more would-be residents of Phoenix, Vegas, Denver and Dallas.

Last edited by NYSD1995; 01-02-2009 at 10:45 PM..
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
1,148 posts, read 2,987,144 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassberto View Post
(1) Bachelors

(2) Software / Web Development (10+ years)

(3) Pay levels are on par with Denver, Philly, Portland. NYC, DC, SF, LA will pay 30%+ more for the same skillset

(4) Cost of living is on par with DC or LA but with Denver salaries.

If I moved to Philly, Denver, Austin or Portland, and made the exact same money as I do in San Diego, and paid exactly what I'm paying in housing costs in San Diego, I'd be living in a top neighborhood in those cities.
Sorry Sass, but I noticed from your other postings that you don't seem to think highly of San Diego and feel you can live better elsewhere with a more reasonable COL. Have you tried relocating out of San Diego since it doesn't seem to suit you?
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:52 PM
 
9,523 posts, read 30,417,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mini_cute View Post
Sorry Sass, but I noticed from your other postings that you don't seem to think highly of San Diego and feel you can live better elsewhere with a more reasonable COL. Have you tried relocating out of San Diego since it doesn't seem to suit you?
Well I Lived here for 15 years. Wife and baby, own a home. Longtime ties to the area. Not so easy to pick up and leave anymore. Most people on the forum seem to be just starting out. Economy being what it is, it's just not a good time to move, anywhere.

I love San Diego. It is a truly unique place. If I could afford to stay here I would. But I want my wife to stay home with the kids and want to have at least one more. I just can't seem to make that pencil on my salary. If I could make that extra 30%, I'd probably stay for the long haul.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:55 PM
 
Location: The Box - El Cajon
258 posts, read 1,648,743 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassberto View Post
Well I Lived here for 15 years. Wife and baby, own a home. Longtime ties to the area. Not so easy to pick up and leave anymore. Most people on the forum seem to be just starting out. Economy being what it is, it's just not a good time to move, anywhere.

I love San Diego. It is a truly unique place. If I could afford to stay here I would. But I want my wife to stay home with the kids and want to have at least one more. I just can't seem to make that pencil on my salary. If I could make that extra 30%, I'd probably stay for the long haul.
Well Sassberto I tend to respect your knowledge of SD from all of your useful posts.

Its kind of prophetic that even you want to leave, (as much as you like SD) because of the bad education system here as well as the unstable economy, but can't or won't because of the economy nationwide and all of the uncertainties of moving.

Some of the posters are definitely exhibiting that North County snobbery that I have encountered and dislike. They seem not to care about the rest of the county. But everything is connected to everything else and we all will sink if there is not enough prosperity to go around.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:58 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,253,323 times
Reputation: 55556
i agree time for a labor movement yet, not yet? oaky doaky.
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Old 01-03-2009, 12:34 AM
 
63 posts, read 283,103 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassberto View Post
I love San Diego. It is a truly unique place. If I could afford to stay here I would. But I want my wife to stay home with the kids and want to have at least one more. I just can't seem to make that pencil on my salary. If I could make that extra 30%, I'd probably stay for the long haul.







C'mon, there's plenty of prosperity to go around. My wife has been a stay at home mom since we had our first of three, 24 years ago. You guys think there's some ridiculous "north county snobbery"? How about east county white trash? Just as ridiculous, isn't it...

Fact remains, anyone can be successful here, IF they choose to, and have it in them to make it happen. Yep, if you rely on a "salary" I.E; someone else to make it for you, you probably won't get to the upper percentage.
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