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Personally, I think living in L.A. is nicer than living in San Diego since I have lived in both but you also have to consider that Im in my 20's. Who are these "most people"? the people here on City-Data? I joined this forum back in spring 07 and soon saw that this forum is filled mostly with people who hate their lives and place where they live. Im not too familiar with San Diego's changes and developments because I was young(19) when I moved out but I IN NO WAY see it as a small L.A.
Los Angeles is not getting worse, and if you lived here it would be evident. Throughout the years Ive seen this city change but of course, you still have those who will complain about anything.
I'd have to dig around a bit, but I know I've seen reports that say most people in L.A. believe that the quality of life is getting worse or that they think their lives would be better elsewhere.
Actually, the context of my statement was simply about the people living in Denver and their attitudes towards Colorado Springs compared to those living in LA and their attitudes towards San Diego. Had you ever lived here in Denver you might see the similarities. I wasn't making any comparisons of the cities themselves - though your statement about Denver wishing it was San Diego is a bit of a stretch... but having come from CA, I know that type of elitist attitude well - I used to have it myself. Living here in Denver for almost 4 years now I've learned that the world doesn't revolve around CA and not everyone wishes they lived there. That's another discussion entirely though. To each his own.
Point well taken. I think the rest of my post was fairly un-elitist. I take back my Denver wishes it were SD statement.
Not having lived there but having visited there I agree that there are actually major similarities to Denver and SD-each has experienced a renaissance of sorts to its urban core in the last few years; both partially related to the new ball-park districts, the downtown areas and first ring suburbs are safer and nicer than in the past, full of great old revitalized neighborhoods and there are some newer interesting outlying "new-urbanist" communities and both have many typical and boring suburbs-Denver: Aurora, Littleton and, San Diego: Carmel Mtn. Ranch, East Lake etc...Both also have beautiful natural resources close by and both are dealing with outlying growth concerns, traffic and air pollution. The cities are much more alike than Denver and LA.
But I stand by my San Diego and Colorado Springs have very little in common and don't think most Californians think of SD as that much of a backwater.
I'd guess that people from LA look at San Diego the way San Diegans look at Long Beach. Why haven't more San Diegans been to Long Beach? Why isn't it the top choice for weekend getaways? It's got the Aquarium of the Pacific, the Queen Mary, a convention center, palm trees, beaches....
As I said before, I don't have anything against San Diego. It's just not my top choice for getaway, and I think that's the attitude of a lot of people from LA. San Diego is on my list, but there are other destinations I'd rather go to first. My top choices are:
1. Vegas
2. San Luis Obispo/Solvang wine country
3. Palm Springs
4. Carmel/Monterey/Santa Cruz
5. San Francisco
6. San Diego
7. Santa Barbara
If I'm going to spend a chunk of money for a weekend out of town, I want to feel like I've really gone to a different place. It doesn't even matter if there are a lack of attractions. It just needs to feel like I've left LA behind. Vegas feels different, obviously. The central coast feels like it is a world away from LA. It really feels different when you get into the desert on the way to Palm Springs.
With all due respect, San Diego feels a little too much like LA. For that matter, so does Santa Barbara. I would go to San Diego before I'd go to Santa Barbara. That really feels like a suburb of LA.
Point well taken. I think the rest of my post was fairly un-elitist. I take back my Denver wishes it were SD statement.
Not having lived there but ... I stand by my San Diego and Colorado Springs have very little in common and don't think most Californians think of SD as that much of a backwater.
I don't know whether this statement regarding CS is 'backwater' or just plain ignorant. Assuming a place is 'backwater' simply because there are conservatives who live there is about as dumb as assuming SF is backwater because of all those liberal socialist living there. CS is no more backwater than OC, both of which are very conservative. So this simply demontrates a very narrow minded view of the world based on a partisian bent.
Sorry but I still have good friends who live in CS some of whom moved 'From' San Diego to CS to live some place 'better.' They are SD natives and have no more desire to move back there than Oklahoma. Believe it or not, not everyone thinks SD is all that great including ppl who have lived there.
I'd have to dig around a bit, but I know I've seen reports that say most people in L.A. believe that the quality of life is getting worse or that they think their lives would be better elsewhere.
L.A. people do love to bash L.A. and have at least since Raymond Chandler's day. L.A. people also are amongst the world's rudest and most arrogant, making Parisians look warm and friendly by comparison. OTOH I prefer L.A. people complaining and bitching about L.A. to the population of other cities who seem to be so blinded by the good aspects of their cities that they are blinded to the bad aspects of their cities.
The high cost of rents and buying property in L.A. - one of L.A.'s most severe problems and which has driven many Angelenos to other places probably more than anything else - has eased, albeit due to the real estate crash and severe recession.
L.A. people do love to bash L.A. and have at least since Raymond Chandler's day. L.A. people also are amongst the world's rudest and most arrogant, making Parisians look warm and friendly by comparison. OTOH I prefer L.A. people complaining and bitching about L.A. to the population of other cities who seem to be so blinded by the good aspects of their cities that they are blinded to the bad aspects of their cities.
It's true. The people of certain cities believe that their city has a "halo" above it while others seem to think their city is possessed by the Devil.
However, as with all stereotypes, those impressions and images have some truth to them. It's just that they're often exaggerated. I think it's human nature to do that, actually. It allows us to be lazy and to think less.
I don't know whether this statement regarding CS is 'backwater' or just plain ignorant. Assuming a place is 'backwater' simply because there are conservatives who live there is about as dumb as assuming SF is backwater because of all those liberal socialist living there. CS is no more backwater than OC, both of which are very conservative. So this simply demontrates a very narrow minded view of the world based on a partisian bent.
Sorry but I still have good friends who live in CS some of whom moved 'From' San Diego to CS to live some place 'better.' They are SD natives and have no more desire to move back there than Oklahoma. Believe it or not, not everyone thinks SD is all that great including ppl who have lived there.
Derek
I do think OC is a backwater, I wouldn't live there in a million years, and I drive through there as fast as I can to get to the borders. Colorado Springs, like Orange County is defined by its homogeneity, places where progressive thinking and diversity is suppressed, just how its residents wish it to be.
A narrow minded view might include describing a vast geographically and culturally diverse area as large as San Diego, as over polluted, rude, concrete jungle full of illegals from TJ not worth a day trip.
A less narrow minded view would include acknowledging an area's weaknesses and attributes and also the same for other cities. Yeah, Northern California is beautiful too- I grew up right next door to Yosemite but am not that much of an urban snob to not acknowledge that there is beauty there just because I live in a city.
There are many areas in this city where I wouldn't want to live, (and areas all over this state, but I'm picky) and never implied for a moment that its perfect or that everyone wants to live here. But having lived all over the U.S. in very rural and urban areas I at least have a realistic view over how livable and attractive to visit it is.
I do think OC is a backwater, I wouldn't live there in a million years, and I drive through there as fast as I can to get to the borders. Colorado Springs, like Orange County is defined by its homogeneity, places where progressive thinking and diversity is suppressed, just how its residents wish it to be.
This proves my point. You should not be affraid to live in or visit a place simply because the majority of ppl aren't liberal (code word progressive) or think like yourself. While claiming to be 'open minded' this demonstrates a very narrow view of the world. I have lived in both liberal and conservative areas and neither determine how much I like that particular area. But I am more moderate in my political bent. So maybe that is why.
Quote:
A narrow minded view might include describing a vast geographically and culturally diverse area as large as San Diego, as over polluted, rude, concrete jungle full of illegals from TJ not worth a day trip.
As I said I continue to take a number of trips to SD and have been to all the places you have mentioned and more. I just don't find it all that exciting compared to other places I prefer visiting. But to each there own. I do appologize if I made it sound like SD was taken over by illegals. While it is an increasing issue in SD the problem exist to varying degrees throughout CA and the US for that matter. It is just closer to the border so it is more prevalent there compared to places like CO. I am not trying to bash SD really. It is just kinda ho hum for me - not bad per se, just nothing that great either. But again everyone has their own preferences whether a city lover, nature lover, liberal, conservative, etc... Just don't think that everyone should want to visit SD in their spare when there are obviously other (sometimes better) options.
Apology accepted. As I said LA is a lot more exiting that SD, and when I need the mountains, Yosemite or Lake Tahoe would fit the bill a lot better than Julian,
I'm not afraid of conservatives- I dislike areas that lack a mix of ideas, culture, and contain so many people that fit all too nicely into the same demographics -whether all liberal or all conservative. This would describe most of OC and Colorado Springs (Yes, I've been there many times) as well as some parts of San Francisco. Once I turn around and find I'm living in a area where everyone looks like and thinks just like me then I'm frightened and moving.
I've worked on farms in rural bible belt Nebraska and got along just fine, and lived in and walked around Hollywood talking with and getting to know the local street kids. I just like my psyche to be challenged a bit so choose to live in an area where I can find that.
Point well taken. I think the rest of my post was fairly un-elitist. I take back my Denver wishes it were SD statement.
Not having lived there but having visited there I agree that there are actually major similarities to Denver and SD-each has experienced a renaissance of sorts to its urban core in the last few years; both partially related to the new ball-park districts, the downtown areas and first ring suburbs are safer and nicer than in the past, full of great old revitalized neighborhoods and there are some newer interesting outlying "new-urbanist" communities and both have many typical and boring suburbs-Denver: Aurora, Littleton and, San Diego: Carmel Mtn. Ranch, East Lake etc...Both also have beautiful natural resources close by and both are dealing with outlying growth concerns, traffic and air pollution. The cities are much more alike than Denver and LA.
But I stand by my San Diego and Colorado Springs have very little in common and don't think most Californians think of SD as that much of a backwater.
As for Colorado Springs and San Diego being similar, not really, you're right. They are both the "little brother" of a nearby bigger city, they both have a higher than average population of military folks, they both have some awesome natural landscapes, and they are both generally a little more conservative than their nearby larger cities. But that is right around where the comparisons end. The only part of your comment I saw as being elitist was the part you took back. As I said, 5 years ago I probably would have said the same thing. Living in the Denver area has changed my tune a bit.
Overall we tend to have similar views on wanting a mix of culture/ideas/people in the area we live in. It's something my wife and I will appreciate a little more when we move back to NorCal from the Denver suburb we're in now.
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