food budget (organic, prices, shops)

[Jamby]

Originally Posted by Oerdin

BTW there has never been a case of anyone ever getting sick from GMO and it's been on the market for some 15 years now. I think that says something. In fact something like 99% of GMO is just gene splicing which essentially just speeds up the traditional cross breeding methods used by horticulturalists. Breed X is resistant to a certain pest but doesn't taste good while while breed Y tastes good but isn't resistant to the pest so the scientists will identify which genes effect resistence and splice it into to fruit they want. This could be done entirely with traditional cross breeding methods but it might take 20-30 generations of the plant before they get exactly the combination they wanted; now it can be done in a single generation. There is nothing wrong with that.

Oerdin regarding GMO: again you are showing ignorance.. "Nobody has died from GMO" - How do you know the last cancer cases you have heard about weren't due to GMO/pesticide? Prove it. Studies have been performed that showed cancer patients had accumulations of pesticides residue inside developing tumor cells. Rats fed monsanto's RoundUp ready crops showed mutations.

I also sugest you stay away from teflon (also known as Plastic) pans, as these are product by Monsanto: http://www.teflonhealthhazard.com/ AND http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=teflon+health&btnG=Search


Research it yourself. THEN make your own decision. Don't protect greedy multinational companies without even knowing what they are about, especially when you are completely unaware of how much they are hurting people's health.

[Jamby]

Originally Posted by Oerdin

Funny, ignorant is exactly the term I would use for a Luddite such as yourself.

BTW in terms of how "healthy" produce is by far the most deciding factor is freshness not how it is grown. Believe it or not fresh, local but traditionally grown produce often has more nutrients then organic produce farmed half a world a way and then brought in by ship. Freshness is ten times more important then "organic".

Define "freshness". With the availability of pesticides today and the marketing that pesticide companies do today, even small scale, local farmers are often seduced into using it, by mere convenience . Best is to ask your local farmer if they use them or not (considering you are buying your stuff at a local farmer's market). Fresh AND grown traditionally is of course better than certified organic from Brazil: this is not what the discussion is about. But when you DO shop at a supermarket, choosing organic is the bare minimum you can do to protect yourself. (along with avoiding processed foods, no matter how organic they may be)

[Jamby]

Originally Posted by Oerdin

Bah, I've talking part in several dozen organic vs traditional threads on numerous forums and the reality is the differences are extraordinarily small. So small as to be inconsequential to all but the hypochondriacs. Enjoy screaming that the sky is falling chicken little.

people don't realize how CHEAP food is today. It's not normal to be able to buy a whole chicken for 5 bucks, it just doesn't add up. That chicken can no longer be considered raised naturally, but is a product of industry. People need to get in touch with the earth again and realize what agriculture is. Most people don't even know how a cucumber grows: of course they can't be expected to know what to eat, what foods to choose, and which guidelines to listen to. Of course, the government, out of financial interests and lobbyists, says that you should eat a little of all food groups, stressing toxic grains and whole grains as the most important one, since it is the food (actually grains are domesticated WEEDS) that grows the easiest, and corn and soy and wheat industry is soaring in the US with all the GMO. The government is just protecting its economy, NOT your health.

Oh well go about your business, you don't have to believe what I am saying, but the further you dig and the more your read, maybe you'll realize some things one day. Just remember to QUESTION EVERYTHING, be SKEPTICAL, and ALWAYS view ALL THE SIDES of an argument. (Not enough parents cheap their children this today, and so we have become the dumbest population in the history of the earth, at least 90% of us).

Just remember if you are doing what everyone else is doing (eating junk and industrial food) , you'll get the same results everyone else is getting: disease and chronic health issues. Been there, done that.

Also: I'm not a hypochondriac I just know what my values and priorities are in life, and having vibrant health/living without disease, are on the top of my list.

[Oerdin]

Actually grains are grasses not weeds and they were specifically chosen by the first farmers because they produce a lot of calories very quickly (just a few months), they can be stored for long period of times without sprouting (which would suck if halfway through winter your stored food sprouted and went bad leaving you with no food) and because they're healthy. Yes, that's right most grains are high in complex carbohydrates, oils, and relatively high in protein compared to other early farm food. That's why grains formed the most important part of agriculture around the world except for in wet tropical environments in Africa (south of the Sahel) and places like Papua New Guinea (both places tradionally used fruit & nut crops along with root crops like yams).

BTW I don't eat junk food and the "chronic diseases" you talk about like heart disease and diabetes have everything to do with eating to much of the wrong foods and not exercising enough. You can eat any food and end up with the same results if you eat to much and don't exercise. I run 5 miles three times a week, eat plenty of fruits & vegetables (my posts about things to eat chould have tipped you off), lift weights at the gym, and am 6'1" & 182 pounds which isn't bad for a 32 year old. My moto is all things in moderation including moderation. Maybe you should try a bit of moderation as well instead of going off the deep end.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Oerdin

Funny, ignorant is exactly the term I would use for a Luddite such as yourself.

BTW in terms of how "healthy" produce is by far the most deciding factor is freshness not how it is grown. Believe it or not fresh, local but traditionally grown produce often has more nutrients then organic produce farmed half a world a way and then brought in by ship. Freshness is ten times more important then "organic".

This thread has really turned funny. Thank goodness most people don't freak about food. I'm from the midwest and there are thousands of ranches that raise cattle. These cattle are range cattle and eat grass and plants all summer until the winter where they are fed bales of hay and alfalpha we grew during the summer. There are no "toxins" or "poisons" injected into the meat much the less steroids.
All of the cattle we raised in the midwest went right into the food chain and is as safe as that 20 dollar a pound hyped up stuff.

This woman at work kept bragging about her organic garden and kept squakking to everyone about how healthy her food was compared to our store bought. One summer she had us all over for a party and about half way through I pointed out to everyone a cat doing a #2 in her beloved garden. She and her neighbors had a bunch of them and I pointed out all the land mines residing in her "organic garden". Ya, that NEVER happens at organic farms. Nothing dies, breaks down or the like. Organic farms still have fungus, insects, animals, mushrooms, water runoff (it does rain right?). Some people think humans invented salmonella (sp).

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by kettlepot

$20 per day? That's $600 per month! Who couldn't feed themselves on that? I could practically eat every meal at a fast food joint or buy it prepared at the restaurant, and have money left over for beer or lattes.

glad you said it, I was wondering the same thing. Hubby and I eat very well, I love to cook, and use some pretty expensive ingredients. I shop for specials, use coupons, and rarely buy much in the way of pre-prepared anything or frozen foods. That being said, we don't spend $20 a day for 2 or us..I spend about $100 per week.

Nita

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by Jamby

How much would you spend if everything that is consumed is of the highest quality Organic available, and only high quality grass-fed meats, vegetables and fruits are consumed? (no cheap grains, no fastfood, Paleo diet style). I am talking 2 pounds of high quality grassfed and certified organic meat plus some certified organic/biodynamic vegetables and fruits, daily. How much will this amount to in dollars per month. Anyone can tell me where the best sources for the highest quality foods are? Farmers Markets? And where? I know there is Whole Foods Market, but it is rather expensive and I found the quality to be pretty low compared to my home country where I ate almost only biodynamically/locally grown foods. Whole Foods Market seems to get their supply from very unsustainable organic industrial farms, like Cal Organic (they sell carrots and most vegetables, and are by the way, not really following organic principles), Rosie Chicken (who Michael Pollan has proven to be as bad as feed lot chicken, since they are fed most of their diet in SOY, which is no way natural for a chicken and which increases toxins in the meats, but the FDA allows it as long as its organic soy, oh well), and other numerous sources of huge farms which work with COMPLETELY depleted soils. I am really looking for a organically certified AND grassfed source of beef/lamb/goat, so if anyone could point me towards that I would be grateful. It can be over the internet, but they have to be able to ship UNfrozen and in smaller quantities than 1/2 of a cow. CSA's? (community supported agriculture) any recommendations here? Like where you get a box with seasonal vegetable/fruit once a week from a local farm? Again please tell me what my options are as I find it hard to believe that there are so little sources of healthy food in such a big city. For example I haven't been able to find an organically certified butcher who carries only grassfed meats (other than whole foods market who I don't really like, don't really trust, and are expensive).

and you probably won't find one.

Nita

[1AngryTaxPayer]

I get a kick out of everyone at work ordering from the cafe then complaining about it while I bring in bbq and garden vegies that have them drooling.

[Oerdin]

Originally Posted by nmnita

and you probably won't find one.

Nita

They exist if only because the ranchers love to sell the same meat for 600% more to dumb asses who think they know better but really don't know much of anything. Mindenhall Ranch beef is an excellent example of 100% grass feed, no hormone beef, which is sold for $25 per pund instead of $4.50 per pound mostly because there is some dumb ass willing to get milked for 600% more for the same beef. The free market works well for milking stupid people out of their money.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by Oerdin

They exist if only because the ranchers love to sell the same meat for 600% more to dumb asses who think they know better but really don't know much of anything. Mindenhall Ranch beef is an excellent example of 100% grass feed, no hormone beef, which is sold for $25 per pund instead of $4.50 per pound mostly because there is some dumb ass willing to get milked for 600% more for the same beef. The free market works well for milking stupid people out of their money.

I agree with you 110%. I guess I don't understand the way some people think. Of course they don't undertand the way I think either, I am sure. I doubt they really understand the whole concept of Organic, it is really very simple: buy organic and get screwed...

Nita