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Old 06-25-2010, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,723 posts, read 67,855,430 times
Reputation: 21304

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmaster View Post
mr fantastic again i found your reasoning flawed and lacking.
"the average workers makes $35,000"
this number does not disaggregate what type of workers :highschool and college kids working after school,people who choose to work part time etc.

according to the us census data found by googling the phrase below:

"Oakland city, California
Selected Economic Characteristics: 2006-2008
Data Set: 2006-2008 American Community Survey 3-Year Estimates
Survey: American Community Survey "


Median earnings for male full-time, year-round workers dollars$46,383

Median earnings for female full-time, year-round workers dollars $44,690


furthermore when you differentiate household income were people work from those on puplic assistance of some kind(ssi,retirement etc)
you find
Mean earnings (dollars)
$76,027





when you remove the families on puplic assistance ,ssi and retired you will find that working families earn enough to live decently in oakland.
Yup.

I like responding to Mr Fantastic because I see his delusional postings as a teachable moment.
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Old 06-25-2010, 03:51 PM
 
Location: San Leandro
4,574 posts, read 9,195,613 times
Reputation: 3248
Quote:
What do they want? a huge house whose focal point is the garage? vapid-manic-depressive kids who learn that materialism is more important than forging meaningful relationships with all sorts of people-not just their own kind?
We want to OWN homes. And by homes I don't mean the 300k rat hole 2 bed room homes you show. We want homes so on the chance we actually have more than one kid and they actually happen to be different genders, they each have their own bedroom, a bedroom capable of fitting more than a bed.

We want space, were not asking for acerage, but is to much to ask to not have to have a home where you step in the back yard and can spit and hit your neighborshouse or jump rooftop to roof top?

We want to be around like minded law abiding parents who have like minded law abiding children. And we would like them to go with children from other decent families, not future hookers and parolees.

Quote:
If those are the kinds of middle class families that you represent than you can keep the whole lot of them.
LoL

Quote:
I am only interested in middle class families that want to contribute to a city-not flee from it.
Well you had better call doc brown and marty, and tell them to set that time machine back to the future , perhaps 1945 would be a good year to start.

Quote:
Middle class families who arent afraid of their damn shadow and middle class families whose kids will ride a city bus to school with ugh, black people,
I don't think middle class families are affraid of black families. But you would not know because you know nothing of the middle class. You grew up in the hood and now you are rich, so you are talking about a class of people you have no experience with. But heres a news flash, I grew up middle class, no ones familiy was scared of me, nor ar my neighbors now, and no one had a problem sending their kids on the bus with me, nor will they have problems sending their kids on the bus with my daughter.


Quote:
families that are in it for the long haul and want to explore the nooks and crannies of Oakland, who celebrate not only diversity, but urban living, not just running further and further away from the great things that urban life has to offer.
Thats exactly what clean cut suburbs are for. Go explore the wonders of Oakland, than get back in the car or bart and head back to relative safety and serenity.

Quote:
If that life is not for you then fine-but do NOT apply your definition of MIDDLE CLASS to everyone else.
Thats funny because the facts seem to suggest otherwise. People are leaving oakland and it is still loosing population while the middle class valleys are still growing. So maybe it is you, who needs to not apply your definition of middle class.


Quote:
Ironically the suburban mindset is all about that-conforming and losing a sense of individuality.
No the suburban mindset is about raising your kids, theres nothing ironic about that, the only thing ironic is you trying to coin suburban living when you don't even live the life style.

Quote:
You can't even pick your own damn drapes in new subdivisions--what a ridiculous way to live. LMAO.


Its not like that everywhere, sorry to disappoint you but the average suburban experiene is not like stepford wives or weeds.

Quote:
There are apparently many nice Oakland neighborhoods a middle class family can actually afford and would probably enjoy living in.

And by the numerous inquiries made on C-D by potential new Oakland residents, there is a lot of interest in Oakland.


No one isnt saying there isnt


Quote:
Good, stay where you are. I still don't understand why you, Mr Fantastic and the like, feel so strongly about telling the rest of us that we are wrong when your opinion is no more valid-and in the case of Oakland, your opinion is MUCH LESS valid than ours.

But keep it up if you want, your opposition is meaningless to me.
People have things to say because you deliberately lie and or mislead people into believing oakland has stable middle class area's like livermore or castro valley, when it does not
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Old 06-25-2010, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,723 posts, read 67,855,430 times
Reputation: 21304
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post

Its not like that everywhere, sorry to disappoint you but the average suburban experiene is not like stepford wives or weeds.
Im sure the Stepford wives could actually pick their curtains.

Quote:
People have things to say because you dilebrately lie and or mislead people into believing oakland has stable middle class area's like livermore or castro valley, when it does not
Oakland DOES have STABLE, MIDDLE CLASS neighborhoods.

Maxwell Park is very established. So is Frick, so is Cleveland Heights, so is Upper Dimond, so is Laurel and so on.

We've just named many of them-apparently to your dismay. Dismay that I have yet to understand.
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Old 06-25-2010, 04:32 PM
 
Location: San Leandro
4,574 posts, read 9,195,613 times
Reputation: 3248
If those neighborhoods are so stable, why are the local k-12 schools so bad? Whyare the only schools that have a high ranking , charter schools? Stable middle class areas have good schools, but of course you did not know that, as you do not live in a middle class area nor do you have children.

Even san jose and and sf have non charter public schools that are in the top 20% or better. Oakland does not.

Thats the whole reason the neighborhoods are such a bargain to begin with, because the schools are terrible and the crime rate is too high considering the value of the homes in the neighborhood. People would pay twice as much to live in those homes if it were san jose or sf, becaue the crime rate is much lower and the local schools would be much better.
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Old 06-25-2010, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Mission Viejo, CA / San Rafael, CA
2,352 posts, read 5,268,319 times
Reputation: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmaster View Post
Data Set: 2006-2008 American Community Survey 3-Year Estimates
Survey: American Community Survey "
The numbers you posted were estimates of what Oakland might look like in 3 years, however the "American Community Survey" didn't take into account a plunging economy in 2005.

So the REAL numbers actually reflect a household median income of 48k, and the average working individual only makes $35,000:
Designing A Socially Just Downtown in Oakland, CA With Grassroots Housing Advocacy

The simple fact is Oakland is full of crime, facing a budget deficit, has a poor public schooling system, and there simply isn't a strong middle-class presence in the city.
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Old 06-25-2010, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Mission Viejo, CA / San Rafael, CA
2,352 posts, read 5,268,319 times
Reputation: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post
We want to OWN homes. And by homes I don't mean the 300k rat hole 2 bed room homes you show.
Ouch. I think you pretty much just destroyed 18Montclair's entire thread with this one statement.
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Old 06-25-2010, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Mission Viejo, CA / San Rafael, CA
2,352 posts, read 5,268,319 times
Reputation: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post



People have things to say because you deliberately lie and or mislead people into believing oakland has stable middle class area's like livermore or castro valley, when it does not
Pretty much the point I've been making this entire thread. 18Montclair will deliberately lie about Oakland's fantasy middle-class to mislead new posters into considering it as a place to live.

Oakland is losing population is droves though (losing about 0.7% a year since 2007), and 100 pages of 18Montclair's propaganda and lies won't bring those people back.
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/program...s_complete.pdf

People are beginning to find the real truth about Oakland: High violent crime, poor public schooling system, and poor housing choices for the average middle class family.
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Old 06-25-2010, 04:58 PM
 
Location: San Leandro
4,574 posts, read 9,195,613 times
Reputation: 3248
Oakland also just layed of 80 officers as of late, and we all know those guys aint gonna be pulled from their beats protecting the hills(ie were the big tax dollars and donations come from). More sketchy neighborhoods will loose what little police presence they already have, ie the working to middle class neighborhoods.
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Old 06-25-2010, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,723 posts, read 67,855,430 times
Reputation: 21304
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post
If those neighborhoods are so stable, why are the local k-12 schools so bad? Whyare the only schools that have a high ranking , charter schools? Stable middle class areas have good schools, but of course you did not know that, as you do not live in a middle class area nor do you have children.
Oh really?

I can't think of 1 single middle class area in SF where the schools could be described as being "good".

In reality, you are talking about rich areas. Because take a look at the best high schools in the Bay Area:

San Francisco Bay Area
Oakland Charter High, Oakland, 955
Lowell High, San Francisco, 949
Mission San Jose High, Fremont, 949
American Indian Public High, Oakland, 946
Monta Vista High, Cupertino, 935
Saratoga High, Saratoga, 933
Miramonte High, Orinda, 928
Pacific Collegiate Center, Santa Cruz, 928
Lynbrook High, San Jose, 925
Campolindo High, Moraga 919
Henry Gunn High, Palo Alto, 915
Dougherty Valley High, San Ramon, 905
Piedmont High, Piedmont, 903
Acalanes High, Lafayette, 902
Palo Alto High, Palo Alto 901

Not one middle class area in the bunch...oh, except for LAUREL

Quote:
Even san jose and and sf have non charter public schools that are in the top 20% or better. Oakland does not.
Actually most middle class students I know of in SF attend private school as do many in Oakland. That is a choice that parents make because they think its worth the sacrifice to live in Oakland.

Furthermore, this is where parental and student involvement come in.

You do know that what makes a school great is not the teachers, but the students and what they bring to the table.

Its so funny how conversatives harp on personal responsibility and accountability for ones own future, yet have no problem assigning the success of students solely in the hands of teachers.

Yet another negative byproduct of the suburban mindset. Hypocrisy.

Quote:
Thats the whole reason the neighborhoods are such a bargain to begin with, because the schools are terrible and the crime rate is too high considering the value of the homes in the neighborhood.
Yet virtually every Oakland home in this thread will sell to a family that probably is middle class. Families that could probably move to Livermore or Castro Valley if they really wanted to.

How Curious...
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,723 posts, read 67,855,430 times
Reputation: 21304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic View Post
Ouch. I think you pretty much just destroyed 18Montclair's entire thread with this one statement.
way too defensive-even for a racist waiter.

And as usual, not convicing.

Next.
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