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Old 06-17-2010, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,659 posts, read 67,539,821 times
Reputation: 21244

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post
While I am pretty much on the spot as usual, oakland did have a middle class, it just kicked the bucket with the start of manufacturing decline in the us and was sped up with the crack-aids boom of the 80's (thats what really sent the middle class to the other side of the hill), and was finished with the dot com boom
except now, the other side of the hills is basically wealthy.

Aside from parts of Concord and the Hy 4 corridor, the Inner East Bay is more or less wealthy and expensive.

What's a middle class family to do but go even farther out.
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
527 posts, read 1,577,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post
When people mean there is no middle class in oakland they mean it in the cultural sense. Of course oakland has middle class people and neighborhoods almost exclusively of these people.

Every city does.

When people say there is no middle class the mean it in the coastal california sense. As in there are no stable middle class areas where a middle class person can afford to buy. Where are a couple of teachers making 40k a year each going to take their 2 boys, 1 girl, and 1 german shepard. Even in the rarity you find a place that is acceptable to your life style, Where you gonna get the 6k and 10k a year per child for elementary and high school tuition respectivel?. Let alone save money for their college, your retirement, and financial saving/padding. And forget about worldy vactions and fancy cars, most people are happy just to scrape by and make ends meat.
A middle class with little purchasing power and little padding between them in the poor house makes for an unstable economy, as is evidenced by all the california metro's unemployment rates.

And dont even get me started on the crime rate.

This is not a problem specific to oakland, nor the bay area. You see this all over coastal california and in manhattan. It's just at the worst end of the quality of life vs cost of living spectrum.
I disagree with your assessment of Oakland's quality of life/cost of living analysis for middle class families. $80k with 3 kids in the Bay Area is going to be cutting it close for most people, but there are still plenty of people who have other choices and choose Oakland. People from the city are moving to Oakland to have a kid and a yard, while not having to give up proximity to an urban environment that a comparably-priced place in a Bay Area suburb couldn't give. I know of plenty of middle-class singles and families setting up shop in Oakland - attracted by new development, new local businesses, and some great elementary schools. While it's not the same middle class as the shipbuilding industrial area, it's still there.
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,659 posts, read 67,539,821 times
Reputation: 21244
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmk1707 View Post
I disagree with your assessment of Oakland's quality of life/cost of living analysis for middle class families. $80k with 3 kids in the Bay Area is going to be cutting it close for most people, but there are still plenty of people who have other choices and choose Oakland. People from the city are moving to Oakland to have a kid and a yard, while not having to give up proximity to an urban environment that a comparably-priced place in a Bay Area suburb couldn't give. I know of plenty of middle-class singles and families setting up shop in Oakland - attracted by new development, new local businesses, and some great elementary schools. While it's not the same middle class as the shipbuilding industrial area, it's still there.
very good post. too bad I can't rep ya.

Frick is another neighborhood I forgot to mention. I think it epitomizes what middle class in Oakland can be. A drive through Frick reveals an immaculately kept area with very neat looking homes.

Frick Average Household Income: $49,690


2bd/1bth House in Frick for $299,000


Other pics of Frick


http://www.kphillips.com/listings/Hillen5221.jpg (broken link)



http://www.kphillips.com/listings/24057_image1.jpg (broken link)
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:59 PM
 
Location: San Leandro
4,576 posts, read 9,164,063 times
Reputation: 3248
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmk1707 View Post
I disagree with your assessment of Oakland's quality of life/cost of living analysis for middle class families. $80k with 3 kids in the Bay Area is going to be cutting it close for most people, but there are still plenty of people who have other choices and choose Oakland. People from the city are moving to Oakland to have a kid and a yard, while not having to give up proximity to an urban environment that a comparably-priced place in a Bay Area suburb couldn't give. I know of plenty of middle-class singles and families setting up shop in Oakland - attracted by new development, new local businesses, and some great elementary schools. While it's not the same middle class as the shipbuilding industrial area, it's still there.
Its not just an assesment of oakland its of coastal california in general.

80k with 3 kids is not a struggle for people in sac, suburban ny metro, chicago, philly, etc.

california coastal cities are pretty much exlusively the only metros in the country where this is a near-impossible feat. Every where else in the country does not have this issue.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:01 PM
 
Location: San Leandro
4,576 posts, read 9,164,063 times
Reputation: 3248
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
very good post. too bad I can't rep ya.

Frick is another neighborhood I forgot to mention. I think it epitomizes what middle class in Oakland can be. A drive through Frick reveals an immaculately kept area with very neat looking homes.

Frick Average Household Income: $49,690


2bd/1bth House in Frick for $299,000


Other pics of Frick







care to show us where the local k-12 schools for the frick neighborhood, and their corresponding api scores?

Again the neighborhood may be middle class, while not being fit for middle class people to raise children.

The proof is in the pudding as this year Oaklands population is estimated to dip under 400k. People are leaving, peroid.

and those pictures of houses, wow talk about tiny. Maybe if it was 1956 and the average family had 1 car and 1 tv. But a 1000 sq ft 1 car garage with yard barely fit for a chihuahua is not my idea of a good deal. Especially at 300k in 2010. For that price in the ny metro, chi metro, sac metro, you can have a house in a low crime suburb with top notch schools. With a yard big enough for a pool, skateboard ramp/room to play catch with your kid at a 90 foot(baseball) distance.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,659 posts, read 67,539,821 times
Reputation: 21244
So I was looking online and this is probably the biggest bargain in Oakland right now. 3bd/2bth in Oakmore for only $299,000


Oakmore is right next to Montclair and has an Average HH Income of $123,750. I wonder why its so cheap? Anyway it would be a great deal for a middle income family.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
527 posts, read 1,577,294 times
Reputation: 320
I love those bungalow-style houses, they're my favorite kind of Oakland homes. Makes me itch to start up my real estate search again. It's funny to read about Oakland not having middle-class families, as I sit in my living room listening to my neighbor's kids play in the yard - they're an enthusiastic lot. My next door neighbor is a retired teacher and raised her kids here, and the place next to her has a cute little family that I always hear in the mornings when their carpool comes to pick up, yelling enthusiastic greetings and having chats with the kids. There are lots of singles in apartments, but also plenty of families in single family homes, none affluent or impoverished. I'm not even sure what being a middle-class neighborhood but not having "middle class culture" means - per the other poster, middle-class culture means never becoming unemployed, never living paycheck to paycheck, and going on trips. I guess that could be one definition, but my definition is a bit more like yours - home ownership, pride in home upkeep, raising your children to be good people, and making enough money to keep a roof over your head and occasionally having room for extras (which extras and how many being one of the many variations among middle class families).
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
527 posts, read 1,577,294 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
So I was looking online and this is probably the biggest bargain in Oakland right now. 3bd/2bth in Oakmore for only $299,000


Oakmore is right next to Montclair and has an Average HH Income of $123,750. I wonder why its so cheap? Anyway it would be a great deal for a middle income family.
I think I saw that one - if it's the one I saw, it's an auction. The place is really nice inside, too. My jaw dropped but then I saw "auction" and figured it'll end up going for wayyy more.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:09 PM
 
Location: San Leandro
4,576 posts, read 9,164,063 times
Reputation: 3248
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
So I was looking online and this is probably the biggest bargain in Oakland right now. 3bd/2bth in Oakmore for only $299,000


Oakmore is right next to Montclair and has an Average HH Income of $123,750. I wonder why its so cheap? Anyway it would be a great deal for a middle income family.

I've seen that house, chances are some one will pay all cash for it and out bid the asking price. Always happens.

Anyone who doesnt have the cash only for that deal is not getting it. Thats how the market is in oakland, its still saturated with specuflippers. You think theey are going to sell that house to a 90k year a family with 30k down? Fat chance. Look it up on zillow or check the public records 6 months from now and see for yourself.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,659 posts, read 67,539,821 times
Reputation: 21244
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post

The proof is in the pudding as this year Oaklands population is estimated to dip under 400k. People are leaving, peroid.
You are incorrect. Oakland is at the highest population its ever been and there are no signs that the city's population will shrink anytime soon.

According to the State of California's Population Estimates:

10 Largest Cities in California
City Pop 1/1/2010...Percent Change 2009-2010

1 Los Angeles 4,094,764...+1.1%
2 San Diego 1,376,173...+1.3%
3 San Jose 1,023,083...+1.6%
4 San Francisco 856,095...+1.1%
5 Fresno 502,303...+1.4%
6 Long Beach 494,709...+0.8%
7 Sacramento 486,189...+1.0%
8 Oakland 430,666...+1.2%
9 Santa Ana 357,754...+0.7%
10 Anaheim 353,643...+1.6%

Oakland is growing faster than LA, SF, Long Beach, Sacramento and Santa Ana.

http://www.dof.ca.gov/research/demographic/reports/estimates/e-1/2009-10/documents/E-1_2010-Press_Release.pdf (broken link)

And I don't know why you feel the need to be hostile?
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