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Old 06-17-2010, 10:12 PM
 
Location: San Leandro
4,576 posts, read 9,162,600 times
Reputation: 3248

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmk1707 View Post
I love those bungalow-style houses, they're my favorite kind of Oakland homes. Makes me itch to start up my real estate search again. It's funny to read about Oakland not having middle-class families, as I sit in my living room listening to my neighbor's kids play in the yard - they're an enthusiastic lot. My next door neighbor is a retired teacher and raised her kids here, and the place next to her has a cute little family that I always hear in the mornings when their carpool comes to pick up, yelling enthusiastic greetings and having chats with the kids. There are lots of singles in apartments, but also plenty of families in single family homes, none affluent or impoverished. I'm not even sure what being a middle-class neighborhood but not having "middle class culture" means - per the other poster, middle-class culture means never becoming unemployed, never living paycheck to paycheck, and going on trips. I guess that could be one definition, but my definition is a bit more like yours - home ownership, pride in home upkeep, raising your children to be good people, and making enough money to keep a roof over your head and occasionally having room for extras (which extras and how many being one of the many variations among middle class families).
well here is an idea: if you live in a city where about 25% of the police force is about to get pink slipped when the city already has the highest crime rate out 99% of cities in the state, its probably does not have a healthy middle class.

Google detroit.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
527 posts, read 1,577,138 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post
Its not just an assesment of oakland its of coastal california in general.

80k with 3 kids is not a struggle for people in sac, suburban ny metro, chicago, philly, etc.

california coastal cities are pretty much exlusively the only metros in the country where this is a near-impossible feat. Every where else in the country does not have this issue.
But people live in Coastal CA and not elsewhere for a reason - and the main reason is preference. Don't get me wrong, every once in awhile I'll peruse real estate in some state like Michigan or New Hampshire and gawk at how much house I could afford, but my preference is here, and I'm not alone.

API scores aren't as important as good parenting - my cousin went to a high school in Vallejo that had an API score of 600, and she just graduated from Stanford with honors.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
527 posts, read 1,577,138 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post
well here is an idea: if you live in a city where about 25% of the police force is about to get pink slipped when the city already has the highest crime rate out 99% of cities in the state, its probably does not have a healthy middle class.

Google detroit.
Oakland's police force hired more officers in the last couple years after getting federal stimulus money, but it was only temporary. Other departments have already made cuts - Concord comes to mind, but there were others. In late '08, Oakland had more police officers than it ever had in history. So, if the cuts do happen (which is not certain, as pension adjustment is a feasible alternative), it will be cuts to numbers that were already inflated past their usual amount. What happened in Detroit was much more complex than reduction in police force numbers.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,659 posts, read 67,526,972 times
Reputation: 21244
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude
care to show us where the local k-12 schools for the frick neighborhood, and their corresponding api scores?
Its funny you should mention this.

The Bay Area's 4th highest scoring High School and 3rd highest scoring Middle School are about a mile away...

American Indian Public High, Oakland, 946 API
American Indian Public Charter Middle School, Oakland 977 API
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:39 PM
 
30,897 posts, read 36,958,653 times
Reputation: 34526
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post
Its not just an assesment of oakland its of coastal california in general.

80k with 3 kids is not a struggle for people in sac, suburban ny metro, chicago, philly, etc.

california coastal cities are pretty much exlusively the only metros in the country where this is a near-impossible feat. Every where else in the country does not have this issue.
I agree with the exception of NY Metro. Homes there are almost as much as the Bay Area. And property taxes there are super high and they jack them up regularly. But in the other metros you mention (and most others) 80K is a decent (if not luxury) income, esp. if it's from 2 teachers who also have great benefits.

And typically 80K is the low end for teacher salaries in the areas you mention (as well as the Bay Area). That's pretty much starting salaries. Even so, it's tough to buy property and raise kids on 2 teacher's salaries in the Bay Area.
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:48 PM
 
15,639 posts, read 26,259,230 times
Reputation: 30932
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmk1707 View Post
Oakland's police force hired more officers in the last couple years after getting federal stimulus money, but it was only temporary. Other departments have already made cuts - Concord comes to mind, but there were others. In late '08, Oakland had more police officers than it ever had in history. So, if the cuts do happen (which is not certain, as pension adjustment is a feasible alternative), it will be cuts to numbers that were already inflated past their usual amount. What happened in Detroit was much more complex than reduction in police force numbers.
I think this is where I mention Measure Y tax money they've been grabbing for more than a few years now that we STILL have seen no value from.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:09 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
527 posts, read 1,577,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallysmom View Post
I think this is where I mention Measure Y tax money they've been grabbing for more than a few years now that we STILL have seen no value from.
The problem-solving officer in my neighborhood is really active on our listserv and always answers questions residents pose, gives crime updates, arranges community meetings, etc. I don't know how it translates into crime prevention, but it's nice having someone who knows who to contact to get answers.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:50 AM
 
3,098 posts, read 3,785,557 times
Reputation: 2580
the bay area is very expensive when it comes to housing.for people who don't enjoy suburban lifestyles and want an urban city environment oakland can provide a very good quality of life at a good value
you can find very nice 2 bedroom condos for a small families for less than $400,000

such as this place:240 caldectt ln 94618 $399,000
Serene Natural Surroundings & Wooded Hillside Views! Desirable Double Master Layout! Beautifully Maintained! Great Commute Location! 2 Parking Spaces! Fireplace, Pool, Hot Tub, Gym, Clubhouse, Dog Run, Storage.
240 Caldecott Lane, Oakland CA - Trulia
good school near here

less than $400,00 for a 2 bedroom in sf gets you some very crappy(my opinion) areas for families like market st,western addition or bayview hunters point unless you win the below market rate lottery.

the quality of life having your child in places like bv/hp or western addition vs the claremont hills.no comparison.

but you can always be a renter in sf like 67% of it's residents.
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Old 06-18-2010, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Mission Viejo, CA / San Rafael, CA
2,352 posts, read 5,253,449 times
Reputation: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post
well here is an idea: if you live in a city where about 25% of the police force is about to get pink slipped when the city already has the highest crime rate out 99% of cities in the state, its probably does not have a healthy middle class.

Google detroit.
Not to mention that Oakland has a 52% dropout rate. High crime, high drop out rate, and a budget crisis, I don't think anyone with could recommend Oakland as a place to move to and raise a family, at least with a good conscience.

But a lot of these Oakland "residents" will claim "We have high API scores!"

Really? Then why do over half the students drop out before they graduate?
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Old 06-18-2010, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Mission Viejo, CA / San Rafael, CA
2,352 posts, read 5,253,449 times
Reputation: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post
While I am pretty much on the spot as usual, oakland did have a middle class, it just kicked the bucket with the start of manufacturing decline in the us and was sped up with the crack-aids boom of the 80's (thats what really sent the middle class to the other side of the hill), and was finished with the dot com boom
True, Oakland did have a middle class in the post-WWII era.

However, Oakland as of late is basically two classes of people; ultra rich aristocrats, and what is basically indentured servants living paycheck to paycheck. The average Oakland citizen makes $35,000 a year, and the average home price is around 9 times that.

How can a middle class even take root?

When you add the super high violent crime rate on top of that, and a budget crisis that will probably see the police forced cut in half, Oakland really doesn't have a chance.
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