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Old 06-18-2010, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Mission Viejo, CA / San Rafael, CA
2,352 posts, read 5,258,446 times
Reputation: 540

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Welcome to the Urban Bay Area.
So what would prevent a family from moving to a comparable suburban neighborhood with more bathrooms and more value?
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
527 posts, read 1,578,329 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelacious View Post
I think the discussion is interesting, because (most) everyone has valid points. I live in Millsmont, and it's a mixed bag--probably 2/3 of the folks are lower-to solidly middle class in the area (probably earning between $80-160K with 0-2 kids), and then we have the other apx. 1/3 of the folks who are in government-assisted housing or legacy homes/apartments who are likely low income and some with substance/criminal issues.

On my block, we have quite a few couples and intact families. Most of us are college educated and work either white collar or blue collar jobs (those that are vocationally trained). We have several same-sex couples, and a mix of black, white, Filipino, Korean, and Latino cultures on the block. The homes on either side of me have stay-at-home mothers (isn't that Wally and Beaver enough for you).

As most things in Oakland, the biggest challenges we all face as middle-class families in our area are--quality of life crime traditionally that is morphing into occasionally a higher priority crime issue (based on what I see on our neighborhood email group, not what I've experienced personally) most of the problems stemming from renters and those living in "legacy homes"; education (so far we either have pre-school kids or gotten our kids into decent elementary schools (we are no longer served by a nearby elementary school), but middle school and high school will be a challenge no matter how you slice it). We also suffer from "small home syndrome". Many of us are in 2bd/1ba homes. While it's great in a way because we really pare down to essentials and don't overload our homes with extra crap, we'd also like an extra bathroom and usually an extra bedroom and a family room, since most of us have more than one kid. So at some point, some of us will have to move or build. The housing stock is really varied on the other hand, so it's possible to get a bigger home in the neighborhood if you really want to stay in the area.

It's those issues that cause some of us to include other cities like Albany, Alameda, or the suburbs as options for the next house, even though most of us would prefer to stay in Oakland if at all possible. Most of us really like Oakland, our homes, and many of the people in the neighborhood.
Great post - I think if Millsmont had some more walkable eateries/shops, it could end up a lot like Laurel.

When people come on here looking for something "family-oriented", no one - even Oakland residents - mentions Oakland off the bat, except for areas that have comparable crime-levels to surrounding cities that are considered good for families (i.e. the hills, Montclair). Living in Oakland is a particular preference, and people know it when they want it. I always see recommendations for Albany, Alameda, etc. But if someone came here and wondered, "What is a middle-class area of Oakland that may have some stats on the crime map but is community oriented with affordable housing and public transportation", they can consult this thread, consult their crime map, visit the place, and make their own decisions.

At least, they could consult the beginning of this thread. For the record, 50% of OPD is not being cut, and it's entirely possible that no jobs at all will be cut, though the proposal is for 20%.

Last edited by lmk1707; 06-18-2010 at 12:24 PM..
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,669 posts, read 67,634,704 times
Reputation: 21258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic View Post
Takes one to know one right Kalen?
The difference is my statement is 100% HISTORICAL FACT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair
Its also a fact that whites in this country spent 300 plus years stomping on black people, threw them in a ditch that they are still trying to claw their way out of 100% TRUE.

Many have made it out, but many are still trying. 300 years of damage is going to take some time to overcome. And you are just going to have to deal with it. Their recovery is not going to be based on your timetable, but on theirs. 100% TRUE.

You do not get to piously generalize about all black people and all black communities without first confronting the insurmountable obstacles placed in their way by YOUR KIND. 1 MILLION% TRUE.
And your comment is 100% RACIST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic
For instance, I routinely serve less food at the restaurant I work at to Hispanics. They are none the wiser.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/13447406-post62.html
1. You deliberately discriminate against Hispanics because of their ethic background

2. You knowingly give them less than what they pay for.

3. You smuggly say they are too stupid to figure it out.


So basically your snake-in-the-grass racist who hates people of color and even go as far as to discriminate against them at your workplace.

Anything else you have to say is worthless.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,669 posts, read 67,634,704 times
Reputation: 21258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic View Post
So what would prevent a family from moving to a comparable suburban neighborhood with more bathrooms and more value?
To keep away from racists such as yourself, I could live with one bathroom.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,669 posts, read 67,634,704 times
Reputation: 21258
Upper Dimond is another area that straddles the line btwn Middle and Upper Middle Class.

Upper Dimond
Average Household Income: $72,309
Pop. Density: 10,355 per sq mile


Its a very diverse area as you can see. I love that about the neighborhoods we've been looking at. The diversity of peoples and cultures is amazing.

Anyway, Upper Dimond is closer to Downtown and is a major commuter area into SF too.

I love Dimond Park
http://2450palmetto.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/CIMG0230.25725437_std.jpg (broken link)

Home Prices in Upper Dimond are a higher than the other neighborhoods we've mentioned so far. I think that's due to its location closer in, as well as due to Glenview, Lincoln Highlands and Oakmore, which all border Upper Dimond. Not to mention the Dimond District which has retail, banks, restaurants etc.

2bd/1bth for $339,000


2bd/1bth for $429,000


2bd/1bth for $499,000


3bd/2bth for $539,000
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:51 PM
 
282 posts, read 383,080 times
Reputation: 178
Hey Montclair,
Can you give me where you obtained this so I can look at more about this place?

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Old 06-18-2010, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
527 posts, read 1,578,329 times
Reputation: 320
Dimond has some good public tennis courts, too - they're in great shape, and they're free - I love Davies, but it's kind of a rip-off at $8/hr.

My other favorite courts are in Bushrod, they have lights, and it's usually easy to get a court. Plus, you can watch the little league and the basketball players. Maybe maintaining court lights and resurfacing tennis courts aren't high priority given everything else, but they certainly make an area more desirable for me, at least.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,669 posts, read 67,634,704 times
Reputation: 21258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakland Uptown View Post
Hey Montclair,
Can you give me where you obtained this so I can look at more about this place?
Certainly.

Its on Maple about half a block up from Macarthur(you know where the Food Mill is?-right by there)

3627 Maple Ave, Oakland, CA, 94602 - MLS #40462537 - Single Family Home real estate - REALTOR.com®
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Old 06-18-2010, 01:44 PM
 
282 posts, read 383,080 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Certainly.

Its on Maple about half a block up from Macarthur(you know where the Food Mill is?-right by there)

3627 Maple Ave, Oakland, CA, 94602 - MLS #40462537 - Single Family Home real estate - REALTOR.comĀ®
Yup! Thanks!

DAMN!

Approximately 838 sq. ft.
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Old 06-18-2010, 01:53 PM
 
74 posts, read 149,776 times
Reputation: 86
Maxwell Park is unimpeachably a middle class neighborhood. Its residents are young professionals -- and older families who've lived there for decades and helped maintain the neighborhood in the face of lots of change going on around it. You don't have to take my word for it, even though I live there. The demographic/income statistics clearly show it's the case.

Maxwell Park is also close to low income neighborhoods. Some people love that diversity, some people hate it. But to argue whether or not an area is middle class based on crime statistics doesn't make any sense. Or is that not the question at hand anymore? I'm losing track.
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