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Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,351 posts, read 8,569,440 times
Reputation: 16693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyadhi01
This is still the USA and in this country individual have rights, communities don't! A bunch of rich, class conscious, tea partiers don't have the right to exclude anyone from their neighborhood. What part of this simple logic do you not understand???
The developers are building low income housing because they still make a profit out it. The people of Pleasanton have no right to interfere with the free market and force developers to build only upscale housing. I guess the Republicans love government interference as long as it suits their core agenda, which is, making the rich richer and screwing everyone else!
Keep whining! You lost the battle..So suck it up and live like everybody else.
You are contridicting yourself. You say individuals have rights, communities don't. Yet it is the individuals who make up a community. Strip the rights from a community and you are in fact stripping rights away from individuals. So why must they be forced to accept someone? If the area has more expensive housing part of it is it's desirability. Great schools, low crime, amenities, etc. If you like those features pay the price like everyone else or give up a little and pay less and live in a different area. Just because you make less money doesn't mean you get to live Pleasanton because it's owed to you.
How do you know developers make money with low income housing? I don't know that it is a definite thing? When land is scarce the cost of the final project will be higher. I would think building more expensive homes would be needed to offset the higher costs. The low income units will cash flow poorly so they will be money losers for whoever owns them be it the city or an investor. When units loose money the owners often try to cut expenses to stop the bleeding which in turn ultimately leads to the decline of the buildings and area.
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,351 posts, read 8,569,440 times
Reputation: 16693
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude
The lower income housing in granite bay is in the local trailer parks, of course. It is perdominatly white, but I would say its more rustic than steril, personally. I don't have any input on the effects of lower income housing, but I have seen the effects of upper income housing in my once rural community. Lots of my old bike jumps and trails are now gated communities. Nothing I can do, change happens.
The problem here is you are trying to compare granite bay, folsom, and el dorado hills, to pleasanton. Folsom, edh, and GB, are the most expenisve areas of the sac metro, so from an economic stand point it does not make sense to build low income housing from a business perspective. You can get the land for half the price of granite bay if you buy in elk grove, natomas, rancho, or even better convert the old airforce housing at the air force base by north highlands. Thats why they build low incomehousing there.
Pleasanton by contrast is not like that. It is actually one of the cheaper places in the bay to build, when compared to sf, san mateo, santa clara, and the east bay hills. Thats why they had to use government intervention to keep the developers at bay, because the community alone can not stand on its own merits, theres just too much open land out there that is cheaper than the rest of the bay.
In comparison you might be right when you compare Pleasanton to San Francisco for costs. But I think sacto is a smaller area and comparing Granite bay to other areas like elk grove is fair. I have met people who moved to Granite Bay into 5,000 square foot homes because it was much cheaper than Pleasanton.
But here we don't compare the valley to the Peninsula. Theres really 4 or 5 areas , the east bay, san jose, peninsula, and Marin County. Comparing the tri valley to hayward, san leandro, fremont, oakland is a better comparison. When you do that Pleasanton is not so cheap. You might be thinking of Dublin which borders Pleasanton which had a lot more land to develop and did so. There was way more building in Dublin and most of it was not cheap. I think all the flat open land you see in Pleasanton you are mistaking for Dublin. I live in Pleasanton and I just don't see all that cheap vacant land you point out. Maybe you could list where they are at because I'm going to go out and buy a nice big cheap lot to build on.
The problem here is a group of people who do not want to live around anyone that isn't rich and white! So its their problem and they should solve it by moving their miserable as**es out of CA pronto just like you seemed to have done !
While I realize that you see racists and conspiratorial, white Republicans lurking around every corner, under every bush and behind every tree, most of the rest of us aren't so afflicted and paranoid, thankfully. Sorry about your outlook!
Our decision to move had everything to do with safety, affordability, seasons, societal structure, and absolutely nothing to do with race. And we're not rich by any means, just comfortable. A truly civil, law-abiding society is something to be enjoyed, not ridiculed, nor is the pursuit thereof.
Last edited by Curmudgeon; 08-02-2010 at 02:33 PM..
In his own talk radio appearance Thursday, Brown was more than happy to talk about his recent work as attorney general, touting an agreement this week with the city of Pleasanton that required more housing to be built near employees’ workplaces. Brown had intervened in a lawsuit filed by a nonprofit after Pleasanton passed a limit on housing units in the city.
Brown said the agreement his office forged would ensure that “Pleasanton builds enough housing so when they create jobs, people can live close to where they work, maybe they can even walk,” Brown said. “It saves energy, it makes for cleaner air.”
And this is Jerry's fantasy. But I wonder how many people live right there in the city where they work, close enough to walk. Or even want to. Personally, I've always preferred to live close, easy commute and all, but not on top of my job...I like a little buffer zone. I've also known some teachers who told me they prefer not to live in the city they teach in, just to avoid the constant running into everyone they know whenever they go shopping and such. But whatever. You can't socially engineer job/work proximity anyway, that's an impossible goal and not really what this is about despite the flowery talk from Mr Brown.
In comparison you might be right when you compare Pleasanton to San Francisco for costs. But I think sacto is a smaller area and comparing Granite bay to other areas like elk grove is fair. I have met people who moved to Granite Bay into 5,000 square foot homes because it was much cheaper than Pleasanton.
But here we don't compare the valley to the Peninsula. Theres really 4 or 5 areas , the east bay, san jose, peninsula, and Marin County. Comparing the tri valley to hayward, san leandro, fremont, oakland is a better comparison. When you do that Pleasanton is not so cheap. You might be thinking of Dublin which borders Pleasanton which had a lot more land to develop and did so. There was way more building in Dublin and most of it was not cheap. I think all the flat open land you see in Pleasanton you are mistaking for Dublin. I live in Pleasanton and I just don't see all that cheap vacant land you point out. Maybe you could list where they are at because I'm going to go out and buy a nice big cheap lot to build on.
Just because you do not compare the valley to the peninsula does not mean that developers dont.
And to take your hypothetical question lets examine:
Lets say you want to build low income housing apartments to capable of housing about 2000 people. You have about 10 acres of land used for this development.
You can go to san leadro, hayward, and fremont, where there is no room to build, you can pay top market value for the land, pay people to tear down existing sites, pay people to tear up existing infastructure such as pipes, side walks, etc,. Than you pay some one to design your apartments to fit each block that you have raised. Than you pay some one to build these aparments.
Compare that to say going to pleasanton or livermore, buying an empty plot of land, paying some one to design 1 aparment building. You pay some one to build 10 apartments of the same model with supporting infastructure, than you are done.
Its way cheaper to build in plesanton, even if you have to say pay 50k or what ever more for the acre. The ends justify the means.
And there is plenty of open land in pleasanton, there is a whole empty plot by bernal on 680, a whole empty plot of land south of 580 and west of el charro, and open land out by stanely blvd. Plenty of cheap land (relative) for developers..
While I realize that you see racists and conspiratorial, white Republicans lurking around every corner, under every bush and behind every tree, most of the rest of us aren't so afflicted and paranoid, thankfully. Sorry about your outlook!
Our decision to move had everything to do with safety, affordability, seasons, societal structure, and absolutely nothing to do with race. And we're not rich by any means, just comfortable. A truly civil, law-abiding society is something to be enjoyed, not ridiculed, nor is the pursuit thereof.
The reason he and others stereo type you as a racist is because many of your posts elude to that or leave the issue up for question. You still have not answerd the fact as to why you are so againt pleasanton having affordable appartments for a couple of elementary school teachers pulling 35k a piece before taxes, or a mechanic making 40 k.
These people can afford to own houses where you live in Mizzou. Could it be that you dont mind the fact that these people own houses where you live because they are white and fit the "good old boy" stereo type? Could it be that you are against what pleasanton is being orderd to do because these people who do these same jobs in California may be of "questionable" racial, sexual, and religious back round? The way your posts are, it really does not sound that far off base..
The reason he and others stereo type you as a racist is because many of your posts elude to that or leave the issue up for question. You still have not answerd the fact as to why you are so against pleasanton having affordable apartments for a couple of elementary school teachers pulling 35k a piece before taxes, or a mechanic making 40 k.
These people can afford to own houses where you live in Mizzou. Could it be that you dont mind the fact that these people own houses where you live because they are white and fit the "good old boy" stereo type? Could it be that you are against what pleasanton is being orderd to do because these people who do these same jobs in California may be of "questionable" racial, sexual, and religious back round? The way your posts are, it really does not sound that far off base..
Nobody minds affordable housing our teachers and mechanics can afford, really. Nobody cares about race, sex or religious background either. When it comes to low cost, very low cost, and section 8 housing it's usually a matter of class, and there is no nicer way of saying it. I'm not saying that applies to everyone of course, but I'm not blind to the issue either. You also don't just have local employees moving in. Everywhere low cost housing has been built in any concentration there are more problems, more crime, less upkeep of property, etc. You get some of that with any high density housing, and extra doses when it's low cost high density housing. When people pay a premium to live in a pricy area it's usually to escape things like that. Nobody can deny this and there is reason to be wary.
Hopefully there can be enough housing created to satisfy state regulations without creating problems. Pleasanton usually spreads their low cost housing out among all new constructions and avoids concentrated areas but it doesn't seem like that will be possible now. Time will tell I suppose.
Nobody minds affordable housing our teachers and mechanics can afford, really.
Than why are there 9 pages of debate on it.
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Nobody cares about race, sex or religious background either.
Oh yea I'm sure race has nothing to do with it....(sarcasm)
I love how pleasanton types always try to deny this, its such a good laugh.
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When it comes to low cost, very low cost, and section 8 housing it's usually a matter of class, and there is no nicer way of saying it.
Most of the apartments being built are not for very low income or section 8. Though some are. most of it is for low income. Or a family of four living on 75k. Thats two fresh out of college 2nd grade teachers with a pair of twins. Or a mechanic and a secretary.
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You also don't just have local employees moving in. Everywhere low cost housing has been built in any concentration there are more problems, more crime, less upkeep of property, etc.
This is the thing that makes me laugh, people think because pleasanton has to have affordable housing that its not going to be local employees moving there, but all of east oakland.
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You get some of that with any high density housing, and extra doses when it's low cost high density housing. When people pay a premium to live in a pricy area it's usually to escape things like that. Nobody can deny this and there is reason to be wary.
So dont buy a house near a low income complex or near a large vacant lot that is slated for development. I've also seen affordable housng that had no negative effect what so ever. In San Ramon or dougherty in the "WINDAMERE" section of town they put a low income aparment complex. Theres no graffitti no gangs, and it sure as hell has not effected the luxury properties accross the street. Its very well contained.
The theme I keep hearing from you and others like you is this nazi, jackboot, throw back 1950's attitude where you seem to think that people have the right to live in places to "get away from these people". But here is a news flash, You do not. This is america, a homeless person has just as much right to be on public space as anyone else in pleasanton. A black or mexican from deep east oakland has a right to get off bart, walk around the streets of pleasanton all night until sunrise if they want. As long as they are not breaking any laws, they have a right to take themselves where ever their legs land them.
This is america, we have that right, my dad fought for that right in vietnam. This is something pleasanton types and a lot of self proclaimed 'republicans' seem to forget in their search for their pseudo 1950s fantasy.
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Hopefully there can be enough housing created to satisfy state regulations without creating problems. Pleasanton usually spreads their low cost housing out among all new constructions and avoides concentrated areas but it doesn't seem like that will be possible now. Time will tell I suppose.
That is what I have been saying, had pleasanton done this in the first place they very easily could have incorporated working class apartments into their city, like Folsom.
But unfortunately they banked on filling the city out with tract homes before the court could make up its mind. They were hoping they could be like " Oh gee sorry we don't have any land left", but that has not worked out.
Now the city will simply have to reap what they sew.
Oh yea I'm sure race has nothing to do with it....(sarcasm)
I love how pleasanton types always try to deny this, its such a good laugh.
Most of the apartments being built are not for very low income or section 8. Though some are. most of it is for low income. Or a family of four living on 75k. Thats two fresh out of college 2nd grade teachers with a pair of twins. Or a mechanic and a secretary.
This is the thing that makes me laugh, people think because pleasanton has to have affordable housing that its not going to be local employees moving there, but all of east oakland.
So dont buy a house near a low income complex or near a large vacant lot that is slated for development. I've also seen affordable housng that had no negative effect what so ever. In San Ramon or dougherty in the "WINDAMERE" section of town they put a low income aparment complex. Theres no graffitti no gangs, and it sure as hell has not effected the luxury properties accross the street. Its very well contained.
The theme I keep hearing from you and others like you is this nazi, jackboot, throw back 1950's attitude where you seem to think that people have the right to live in places to "get away from these people". But here is a news flash, You do not. This is america, a homeless person has just as much right to be on public space as anyone else in pleasanton. A black or mexican from deep east oakland has a right to get off bart, walk around the streets of pleasanton all night until sunrise if they want. As long as they are not breaking any laws, they have a right to take themselves where ever their legs land them.
This is america, we have that right, my dad fought for that right in vietnam. This is something pleasanton types and a lot of self proclaimed 'republicans' seem to forget in their search for their pseudo 1950s fantasy.
That is what I have been saying, had pleasanton done this in the first place they very easily could have incorporated working class apartments into their city, like Folsom.
But unfortunately they banked on filling the city out with tract homes before the court could make up its mind. They were hoping they could be like " Oh gee sorry we don't have any land left", but that has not worked out.
Now the city will simply have to reap what they sew.
I don't know exactly why you feel I'm being rude or that you have to be rude to me. I only stated, in a nutshell, why many people have a problem with forced low cost housing ANYWHERE. Facts you apparently don't want to acknowledge. You want to turn it into a race issue....knock yourself out. The fasting growing populations in Pleasanton are Indian and Asian.Homeless people don't have a right to live anywhere they want, I don't know what fantasy world you are talking about. I don't care who gets off BART and walks around...where are you getting this kind of stuff anyway?
And no, Pleasanton does NOT have tons of empty cheap buildable land. Much of the open space is protected for various reasons, including environmental (the ridgelands expecially) and the rest you see has not been annexed into the city. It won't be becasue infastructure won't support any more explosive growth within the city boundaries.
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they very easily could have incorporated working class apartments into their city
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But unfortunately they banked on filling the city out with tract homes before the court could make up its mind. They were hoping they could be like " Oh gee sorry we don't have any land left", but that has not worked out.
Now the city will simply have to reap what they sew.
They have, just not enough of it. Pleasanton will be ok, still too expensive for most people to ever live in regardless. They already have some low cost apartments that were built and there was already plans for more near BART, and now they will set aside some more land for possible future building. That's all.
Lets just make the United States of America one giant city so all people can enjoy the same city. I don't want anyone missing out on living like an American so lets all have the same city. I don't want any open space either. Lets keep developing more buildings and homes on any open land. I mean it's cheaper and easier to do than renovate the old and or unused buildings. I want all the cities to be connected. I just want one giant city from Oakland to Pleasanton to Sacramento and beyond. This is the best idea for everyone. It is equal for people of all races and wage brackets. It's perfect!!!!!!!!!!
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