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SF is a much smaller city than LA or NYC. There aren't even a million people in the city limits, so of course it isn't the economic engine of the US. They would make SF ridiculously productive in revenue production. I'd agree that day to day living in SF is closer to NYC than most cities on the West Coast. People here take transit, walk places, go out to eat a lot and live in dense neighborhoods. This isn't common on the rest of the west coast.
It is very common on the rest of west coast in certain areas.
Do you know L.A. has a subway system? Do you know how many people are living a more urban lifestyle in Downtown LA lofts, or in Little Tokyo and taking the metro all over LA?
Downtown San Diego also has a pretty good trolley system, and is very walkable. Start at American plaza and walk Broadway up to 8th street. Mosey along 5th ave for a row of high class restaurants, bars and shopping boutiques. It's a reasonably urban experience as well.
Yes neither of these can really compare to NYC, but neither does SF in any real sense either. California is California. It is what it is. It will never have that East Coast edge, mainly due to the fact that Californian cities just aren't as old as those in the East.
Again I haven't seen anyone point out any specific areas of SF that compare to those in Manhattan.
Do you actually consider taking the MUNI as a New York-esque experience? People in NYC don't take anything like the MUNI. You take a Cab or you take the Subway. The BART is nothing like the NYC subway either. There's hardly any hippies with bikes on it, and it's NOT carpeted. I mean I truly do not understand this at all. Having lived in NYC on 14th st. in the thick of it, and having visited SF while living in the East Bay numerous times, I simply don't see the connection at all.
For example I have hardly seen anyone in SF hail a cab to go anywhere. Not in the mission, not by Dolres park. Not anywhere. How is it comparable? Is Japantown in SF anything like any place in NYC? It's isolated from the rest of the city, it's not walkable...Would anyone walk from Japantown down Geary to get to Market St.????? In NYC people will walk from the Met in Central Park all the way to the Village.
I can go on and on with this. Anyone who's really lived NYC for any period of time knows what's up.
I've lived in Florida, Texas, Ohio, and now California - so very different places. I've been to 38 states and am decently well-traveled overseas. I've enjoyed myself in the Bay Area. I live the way I want to live in the extreme reaches of the East Bay. I moved here because my wife and I gained good employment and we didn't move here to seek out some sort of fad or dream, so we knew exactly what we were doing.
Personally, I wouldn't want to live in San Francisco. I think it's neat to show people around because I know the area well, but in my opinion, it's far too transient, too busy, too hipster, and too expensive for myself. I'd rather have more room and a more relaxed setting and save money. I imagine I'd have some of the very same complaints about NYC, as well, so neither is for me, but I can appreciate both.
Having said that, there's clearly no comparison for NYC (I think LA is an even poorer comparison than SF is, by the way). People often try to compare things and I don't think it's surprising that San Francisco is the top comparison of what is available, mostly because nothing else is comparable and SF shares some similar traits. What's wrong with people pointing them out?
Regardless, my recommendation is to accept other people's point of views a bit better. All of our experiences are so relative. You didn't enjoy Berkeley and 5 others did. My personal favorite city in the Bay is Oakland (no contest) and there are people out there that hate it with a passion. Meh. To each his own.
I personally don't enjoy my time when I'm in L.A. - I try to make the best of it and accept that other people love it. I'm not going to go down to their forum and tell them about some of my ideas about SoCal.
Just try to be respectful when you're on this side of the forum too, yeah? I think everyone is pretty nice here, so.
It is very common on the rest of west coast in certain areas.
I am well aware that SD and LA have urban neighborhoods. But most residents live more like people in the suburbs. Their primary mode of transit is a car. It is very difficult to not be car dependent in SoCal, well pretty much the entire state. SF is really the only city that it is remotely feasible to go car free. Not every neighborhood in SF is walkable, but there is Manhattan-esque density in many SF neighborhoods. Try the Tenderloin, Chinatown or North Beach. Those neighborhoods have more than 30K/sq mi. That's pretty comparable to NYC.
Re: Cabs? More people than you think take cabs. Not as much as NYC, of course, but it is possible. Especially if you are starting from downtown or north beach. Lots of people take cabs over there it is really common, especially considering there are no cab stands.
RE: Walk across all of SF. Of course not, there are some serious hills along they way...
SF is SF no matter what, but it has quite a bit in common with NYC.
(I think LA is an even poorer comparison than SF is, by the way)
They are both poor comparisons, but at least L.A. is in the same league.
Just because you have some dense urban areas in SF doesn't make it a good comparison. I could show you dense urban areas in L.A. that compare as well SF does. I mean which part of SF are we talking about? The Mission? Lombard Street? Forest Hill? Is there anything really similar to NYC about these areas?
People talk about the "Lifestyle". What is there specifically about the lifestyle in SF that is like NYC??? I'm sorry if you think life on WALL ST, is anything like life in SF you're nuts. BART vs. Subway? Give me a break. I don't see it. I'm sorry. SF is a baby town. NYC is probably one of the worlds most important cities filled with the businesses and people that influence the globe. It has a diversity, class of people, and a lifestyle that's nowhere to be found in SF. PERIOD. End of story. At least L.A. has the class of people and diversity, it's just a completely different setting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parti Rhinocéros
Regardless, my recommendation is to accept other people's point of views a bit better. All of our experiences are so relative. You didn't enjoy Berkeley and 5 others did. My personal favorite city in the Bay is Oakland (no contest) and there are people out there that hate it with a passion.
Sorry. No way. I've been annoyed too much by the Bay Area attitude to let these foolish notions go unchallenged. Notice not one of these Frisconians can come back with anything specific, and of value. All their points are based on ignorance, and assumptions of what they think things are like, as opposed to what they are actually like.
You like Oakland? I feel sorry for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parti Rhinocéros
I personally don't enjoy my time when I'm in L.A. - I try to make the best of it and accept that other people love it. I'm not going to go down to their forum and tell them about some of my ideas about SoCal.
I would love to hear why. Please posts your thoughts in L.A. forum and I will be happy to debate you. Thanks.
I am well aware that SD and LA have urban neighborhoods. But most residents live more like people in the suburbs. Their primary mode of transit is a car. It is very difficult to not be car dependent in SoCal, well pretty much the entire state. SF is really the only city that it is remotely feasible to go car free. Not every neighborhood in SF is walkable, but there is Manhattan-esque density in many SF neighborhoods. Try the Tenderloin, Chinatown or North Beach. Those neighborhoods have more than 30K/sq mi. That's pretty comparable to NYC.
Re: Cabs? More people than you think take cabs. Not as much as NYC, of course, but it is possible. Especially if you are starting from downtown or north beach. Lots of people take cabs over there it is really common, especially considering there are no cab stands.
RE: Walk across all of SF. Of course not, there are some serious hills along they way...
SF is SF no matter what, but it has quite a bit in common with NYC.
Have you ever LIVED in NYC dear? Quite a bit in common? That's a really easy general comment to make. Specifics please.
You said: "It is very difficult to not be car dependent in SoCal, well pretty much the entire state." Exactly right. The ENTIRE STATE. SF included in that. Almost everyone I know in SF has a car. They tried very hard to make it without one, but just couldn't do it.
"SF is really the only city that it is remotely feasible to go car free."
On the west coast? Oh really? How come I know a bunch of people living in PORTLAND, who don't own a car, and live just fine. You can live in ANY city on this coast without a car, if you find the right area in that city, and are completely committed to it. SF is just like any other major city on the west coast in that regard.
"Manhattan-esque density in many SF neighborhoods"?
Density? Sure.
Same Vibe? No.
Same Feeling? No.
Classiness? No.
Building styles and heights? No.
Diversity of Community? No.
Cleanliness? No.
I have not seen anything in SF that compares to Times Square and the 42nd street area. Not even close.
"Tenderloin"?? Are you crazy??? Do you even know what New York is like? Harlem isn't even like the Tenderloin!
Cabs are the bread and butter of living the New York lifestyle. You walk out on the street, you should be able to get a cab in less than a minute. Cabs are everywhere. I saw no Cabs like that in the Mission. I saw no cabs like that anywhere I went in SF. Sorry man.
They are both poor comparisons, but at least L.A. is in the same league.
Just because you have some dense urban areas in SF doesn't make it a good comparison. I could show you dense urban areas in L.A. that compare as well SF does. I mean which part of SF are we talking about? The Mission? Lombard Street? Forest Hill? Is there anything really similar to NYC about these areas?
People talk about the "Lifestyle". What is there specifically about the lifestyle in SF that is like NYC??? I'm sorry if you think life on WALL ST, is anything like life in SF you're nuts. BART vs. Subway? Give me a break. I don't see it. I'm sorry. SF is a baby town. NYC is probably one of the worlds most important cities filled with the businesses and people that influence the globe. It has a diversity, class of people, and a lifestyle that's nowhere to be found in SF. PERIOD. End of story. At least L.A. has the class of people and diversity, it's just a completely different setting.
Sorry. No way. I've been annoyed too much by the Bay Area attitude to let these foolish notions go unchallenged. Notice not one of these Frisconians can come back with anything specific, and of value. All their points are based on ignorance, and assumptions of what they think things are like, as opposed to what they are actually like.
You like Oakland? I feel sorry for you.
I would love to hear why. Please posts your thoughts in L.A. forum and I will be happy to debate you. Thanks.
Probably because you're from around SF, you think in terms of SF. If you've visited Seattle then it's fine to have that opinion I guess. I think most people haven't even considered Seattle when they talk about "west coast" cities.
Downtown L.A. could be considered urban too, and has some walkable parts, but is nothing, absolutely nothing, compared to NYC. In NYC I could walk from Central Park down Broadway or 8th street all the way to Union Square around 14th and always see something or have some place interesting to go. Not a lot of dead Spaces. SF is NOT as walkable as NYC by any means, and NOWHERE NEAR AS URBAN. There are tons of dead spots, even in the most urban parts of SF. And I have never encountered an ANY area in SF that is comparable to the Spring St. area or the Village.
Bottom line. SF has no business comparing itself with New York, because it's not even remotely the same!!!!!!!!!! There aren't hills in Manhattan, no stupid rows of Victorian homes. Central Park dwarfs any park SF has. Even the surrounding areas in the 5 burroughs, that are as much a part of the NYC scene as Manhattan itself, can't be compared to Oakland, Berkeley, or any other crappy East Bay town surrounding SF. Queens by itself is more urban than any of those stupid East Bay shanty towns.
Frisconians quit trying to elevate yourselves to New York's level. You suck. The two most important cities in this country are NYC and L.A.. That's it. Accept it. NO ONE CARES ABOUT SF except for foodies and tech heads.
I laugh at your response. Though valid points were stated, that doesn't mean everyone else simply wishes they were LA or NY all day long. That being we in California live fun lives. Who don't feel the need to compare themselves to know that. Just as a side note.....Have you ever seen those who move to LA form places like new york?Classic dissapointment........i guess this boost the arguement for NY, ....but theres plenty of new yorkers who seem to always stray away from their hometown so it couldn't offer everything right.....Also there is only one SAN Fransisco which is defintively and historically unique. And NEW YORK is a text book MEGA CIty enough said.
It is foolish to say that SF is exactly like NYC because they are two very different cities. However, it is perfectly acceptable to make comparisons between the two because they do share SOME similarities.
SF, although not very much like NY, is the closest thing to NY on the west coast. LA is not even remotely alike to NY.
As someone above mentioned, most people that I know who live in LA have a car and need it everywhere they go. Out of all my high school and college friends who now live in the city, not one of them uses a car. I'm sure others do need a car in SF, but in my experience it is not necessary.
It is foolish to say that SF is exactly like NYC because they are two very different cities. However, it is perfectly acceptable to make comparisons between the two because they do share SOME similarities.
SF, although not very much like NY, is the closest thing to NY on the west coast. LA is not even remotely alike to NY.
As someone above mentioned, most people that I know who live in LA have a car and need it everywhere they go. Out of all my high school and college friends who now live in the city, not one of them uses a car. I'm sure others do need a car in SF, but in my experience it is not necessary.
Do you people really think L.A. is just a massive sprawling suburbia of mini malls? That's impression most smack talkers that I talked to in SF seemed to have. While I don't portend to say L.A. is like NYC, I think it's more urban than people give it credit for.
Koreatown is the perfect example. While not walkable, it offers probably the most unique, intense, and interesting club/bar/dining experience I've ever had. Even better than NYC in some respects, especially when it comes to sheer variety and number of options you have to dine/drink in that area.
It's interesting to hear that your friends don't own a car in SF. But I don't think it's typical. Especially among the high salaried workforce like the tech industry people. How many people that live in SF and work at Google, Facebook, or any other prestigious tech company up there do not own cars to commute from SF to their jobs??? I would say most of them probably own cars. Why wouldn't you own one? It's California! And on the weekend you can drive to Sonoma/Napa/Tahoe/Monterey or wherever to have a mini weekend stay-cation.
The whole point is, to me comparing SF to NYC is like comparing Houston to Tokyo. Yeah there are similarities...so what??? In Texas, Houston is probably the closest thing you can get Tokyo. That doesn't make Houston like Tokyo. To say they have "a lot in common" is a stretch.
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