A Bridge Made in China (home, unemployment, university)

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by beb0p

No, no, no, no, no. This is misleading and misinformed. The U.S. DOESN'T have the infrastructure to do the things that are outsourced to China. A decade of Republican voodoo economics have striped much of the local talent, equipment, and warehouses needed to do this kind of jobs. We've been outsourcing this kind of work for a LONG time now because we simply can't do this anymore. It's that simple.

I have several cousins who work for Caltran, including one who is a bridge inspector. They all said the same thing - they don't trust US steel manufacturer. Last time they relied on one in Arizona to build a piece to fix the eyebar crack on the Bay Bridge, it arrived not according to spec and didn't fit. Caltran engineers had to use an ad hoc method to make it fit and the damn thing fell down a few months later and Caltran became the scape goat. According to them, all high level management were PO and would never use a US manufacturer again unless in an emergency.

To top it off, the Arizona manufacturer is the only one left in the country who is even mildly capable of taking on the task, so if CA went domestic they'd have to use the same people who screwed them before.

Don't blame the state, blame the people who created this outsourcing environment.

Isn't the AZ fabricator the same that supplied the steel in record time to re-open the Oakland freeway interchange a few years ago?

My brother is a leasing agent for some of the Pittsburg Steel plant... he showed me the cavernous interior of one of the buildings that still had the huge crane... apparently that building and crane were used for the Bay Bridge initial construction way back when...

We are loosing much of our infrastructure never to return... off topic, but, there was a huge paper mill in Antioch that at one time employed thousands of workers and had deep water harbor... that plant is totally gone even thought it always made a profit...

The reason is there was more profit to be made elsewhere without having the administrative and actual cost burden to keep the plant in compliance with with ever increasing regulation...

I expect the Cast Iron Foundry in Oakland will be the next to go... and the city wants them to go... many have said there is no place for heavy industry in a city of over 400k population...

[mayorhaggar]

The CEO's want bigger bonuses so they send the actual work to places like China where they can pay people dirt and pad their own pockets more. The bridge was designed in the Bay Area, but built on the other side of the ocean. Very green to ship all those parts here.

[RedJacket]

"Pan Zhongwang, a 55-year-old steel polisher, is a typical Zhenhua worker. He arrives at 7 a.m. and leaves at 11 p.m., often working seven days a week. He lives in a company dorm and earns about $12 a day."

A glimpse at what's in store for American workers in the not to distant future.

[hsw]

EastBay is fairly economically irrelevant (as is SF itself)
Voters from EastBay should express views to community organizers in Sacto or DC

Apple (world's second most valuable co., behind Exxon of suburban Dallas)...is based in Cupertino; wealthiest workers live in PaloAlto/Woodside/Atherton, not SJ/SF, let alone EastBay/Marin; stuff is assembled in China of components mfd in Taiwan/Japan/Korea; ~50% of sales are outside US; shareholders are largely US-based, incl many mutual/pension funds investing on behalf of many allegedly "normal" working folks incl union workers like gvt/nonprofit/UAW/SEIU, etc

Anyone with common sense knows China (or India) is unable to do precision mfg or advanced R&D: assembly/IT outsourcing at best....houses in Woodside or Mercedes driven by affluent are made by craftsmen from Germany or US who are best at whatever they do...and, mysteriously, nearly all of world's >$1MM/yr engineers live/work in PaloAlto area, not anywhere else in US or RoW (incl Germany or Japan....hmmm)

[mayorhaggar]

Originally Posted by hsw

EastBay is fairly economically irrelevant (as is SF itself)
Voters from EastBay should express views to community organizers in Sacto or DC

Apple (world's second most valuable co., behind Exxon of suburban Dallas)...is based in Cupertino; wealthiest workers live in PaloAlto/Woodside/Atherton, not SJ/SF, let alone EastBay/Marin; stuff is assembled in China of components mfd in Taiwan/Japan/Korea; ~50% of sales are outside US; shareholders are largely US-based, incl many mutual/pension funds investing on behalf of many allegedly "normal" working folks incl union workers like gvt/nonprofit/UAW/SEIU, etc

Anyone with common sense knows China (or India) is unable to do precision mfg or advanced R&D: assembly/IT outsourcing at best....houses in Woodside or Mercedes driven by affluent are made by craftsmen from Germany or US who are best at whatever they do...and, mysteriously, nearly all of world's >$1MM/yr engineers live/work in PaloAlto area, not anywhere else in US or RoW (incl Germany or Japan....hmmm)

YouTube - ‪Authentic Frontier Gibberish‬‏

[beb0p]

Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly

I doubt this. There are several mills East of the Rockies.

Or failing that, at least go the NAFTA route.

It did not have to come from the PRC. Of course, a little Guan Xi will go a long way these days.

Did you read the article? Especially the part says:

Most U.S. companies don’t have these types of warehouses, equipment or the cash flow.

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Isn't the AZ fabricator the same that supplied the steel in record time to re-open the Oakland freeway interchange a few years ago?

My brother is a leasing agent for some of the Pittsburg Steel plant... he showed me the cavernous interior of one of the buildings that still had the huge crane... apparently that building and crane were used for the Bay Bridge initial construction way back when...

We are loosing much of our infrastructure never to return... off topic, but, there was a huge paper mill in Antioch that at one time employed thousands of workers and had deep water harbor... that plant is totally gone even thought it always made a profit...

The reason is there was more profit to be made elsewhere without having the administrative and actual cost burden to keep the plant in compliance with with ever increasing regulation...

I expect the Cast Iron Foundry in Oakland will be the next to go... and the city wants them to go... many have said there is no place for heavy industry in a city of over 400k population...

Unfortunately for the AZ manufacturer, one is only as good as one's last game. I don't doubt that they are good and I'm sure they had lots of shiny moments, but after the eyebar incident, I'm told that Caltran will not go back to them for a while, if ever.

But yes, what you said is very true, US lost a lot of jobs and infrastructure relating to steel manufacturing to outsourcing. We're at the point where one has no choice but to outsource due to our brain drain. It's very sad.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

San Francisco has a long and storied past with China... the largest Chinese New Years Parade outside of China is in San Francisco...

Don't know what else to say...

What I say is that I hope they make bridge parts better than they make toys and with far less lead in them!

[RedJacket]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

What I say is that I hope they make bridge parts better than they make toys and with far less lead in them!

The article stated this particular company has never made bridge parts before, so its best not to be wearing a seatbelt when crossing it just in case you need to get out of your car in a quick hurry.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly

This is the beginning of the end.

Its starting to look that way isnt it.

[simken]

This is just the worst bull I have ever heard:

“I don’t think the U.S. fabrication industry could put a project like this together,” Brian A. Petersen, project director for the American Bridge/Fluor Enterprises joint venture, said in a telephone interview. “Most U.S. companies don’t have these types of warehouses, equipment or the cash flow. The Chinese load the ships, and it’s their ships that deliver to our piers.”

Well Mr. Petersen, YOU, and people like you, are the reason why people are starting to doubt that the U.S. could do it. Heck, the DANES could build a 15 mile bridge including 4 mile suspension, a country of 5 million people! Whatever happened to "We are the U.S. and we can do whatever we set our minds to, including a bridge across the bay"?

When our top entrepreneurs start talking like this, it creates an atmosphere of resignation...he should be fired for that.