Oakland City Councilmembers push for Curfews, more Gang Injunctions (Pomona: crimes, neighborhoods)
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Thanks for the reply, I'm interested in what you have to say -- but I think that this is a very slippery slope
Believe me, I totally see your point and understand your concern.
But the way I see it, this is about children, who in my experience having once been a child myself(), are impressionable, more apt to be swayed by peer pressure and are not mentally and intellectually mature enough to think and act like adults.
Once again, not all kids, but too many where we can't ignore the reprocussions of how their negative actions are impacting Oakland.
Rehabilitating this would take a united effort by parents, schools, churches, youth groups, police and so on.
Were it up to me, we'd totally overhaul the Oakland Unified School District and follow the model set by Amercan Indian Middle and High School which are among the top 10 highest scoring schools in the state.
Criminals terrorizing their hoods is worse than any gang injunction, but the people who actually live there, and a lot of politicians, have developed some sort of weird Battered Women's Syndrome thing where they either passively or actively support criminals instead of the police, which makes it a lot harder to catch the crooks. It's one thing to be against racism, or to be afraid of retribution by criminals if you "snitch," but why do people protest when the cops justifiably kill a menace to society, but do nothing when some child is murdered? And then when things quiet down the same people who protest disingenuously ask why the police are never around when you need them.
I don't think gang injunctions are racially motivated per say, but in certain cities - especially Oakland - it's a slippery slope to say who's in a "gang" and who's not. the North Oakland gang injunction is targeting the black turfs (FT/ASAP, Cold Gunnas, etc.) The problem with this is that anybody who lives in the neighborhoods of the gang is affiliated by default and generally associates with people in the gang. I've heard of LA gang injunctions leading to family members literally not being able to associate with other family members in public without going to jail and ridiculous situations like that. Also, what's protecting the young males who aren't in the gangs but hang together in groups from being profiled? Are young black males from North Oakland now not allowed to be friends in public? Those type of rulings tend to decrease the quality of life for everybody in those neighborhoods, not just the criminals. Imagine if every group of white kids in Orinda was profiled by the police for being part of the Hell's Angels or the Aryan Brotherhood... it's the same principle here only more people support it. Now obviously there's more of a need in this case (there's high crime) but it will tend to have the same effect on the community's perception of the police... it's not going to improve it. And the police who run that precint already have a terrible track record... the latest victim of theirs was Gary King from 2007 and they were never able to produce a cause for shooting him other than "he ran". Supposedly they never even identified themselves as cops.
I don't think this is as cut and dry as some people make it.
As for the curfew, despite being a minor myself I support it... unless you participate in night activities (church functions, night sports leagues, etc.) then there's no reason you should be out because there's nothing open. The only exception I can think of is if you're "hungry" and your parents work the graveyard shift or if your parents send you out for something but even then in certain areas that's not the best idea... remember that 13 year old from Frick Middle School who got killed when his uncle sent him out for gas around Seminary at around 11:00 PM? Stuff like that is not particularly intelligent, so in some ways it's better for the city to institute the curfew rather than the parents as not all parents are going to view the issue the same way.
i do not think drug dealing and the violence that goes with it protect the community.the violence associated with selling illegal drugs in america makes the community unsafe for everyone. i think more innocent people are harmed like the 3 year old kid who was killed than people are protected.
Gangs are a part of the community. Im not saying what they do is ok per se, Im saying that within the community, there is a sense of community.
Surely, if shootings or killings were to happen in one community, retribution shootings or killings will follow in the next community.
Oakland police need to positively interact with these communities. These communities should know their assigned officer by name and have their contact information and be able to trust and their assigned officers to respond.
Still, Batts believes the department's lack of responsiveness contributes to its problems by leading people to believe that Oakland police officers are ineffective. As a result, they're less likely to call police and report crimes or cooperate as witnesses. "If the community doesn't see the police department as legitimate, then they tend not to give you leads," he said. That not only makes it much tougher for the department to solve crimes overall, but it also means that residents will be less likely to tax themselves to hire more cops, leaving the department understaffed and ineffective.
^That, and people are forgetting that it was not too long ago (less than a decade) when officially sanctioned police units like "The Riders" were screwing off what little good karma the OPD had left, not to mention that that particular group was acquitted of all charges.
Really? Personally I think they have the "right" to be outside because they were born, why should a 16 or 17 year old have less of a right to be outside than you do just because they've been here for less time?
Well -- I'm 52 years old, and I grew up in a rural/suburban very safe area back east -- and as kids we had an enforced curfew of midnight -- I think. It may have been earlier, like 11. After that time we had to be driven home if we were out.
And, if we were out soaping windows (that was about the worst thing we ever did as kids -- well -- we tick tacked and corned houses when the residents were awake, other wise what's the point) and we got caught -- not only would we have to wash the windows we soaped -- we got put in the back seat of the police car and taken home to our parents, who would be woken up and embarrassed. THEN the parents would proceed to dress us down in front of said cops (who we went to church with) and grounded.
In short -- curfews are nothing new. They are something that SHOULD be enforced.
Well -- I'm 52 years old, and I grew up in a rural/suburban very safe area back east -- and as kids we had an enforced curfew of midnight -- I think. It may have been earlier, like 11. After that time we had to be driven home if we were out.
And, if we were out soaping windows (that was about the worst thing we ever did as kids -- well -- we tick tacked and corned houses when the residents were awake, other wise what's the point) and we got caught -- not only would we have to wash the windows we soaped -- we got put in the back seat of the police car and taken home to our parents, who would be woken up and embarrassed. THEN the parents would proceed to dress us down in front of said cops (who we went to church with) and grounded.
In short -- curfews are nothing new. They are something that SHOULD be enforced.
^That, and people are forgetting that it was not too long ago (less than a decade) when officially sanctioned police units like "The Riders" were screwing off what little good karma the OPD had left, not to mention that that particular group was acquitted of all charges.
This is an excellent point along with Stephen's.
Yet all too often, we see in the media people blaming the police from crimes and I don't see the logic in that at all.
At the end of the day, I believe its up to neighborhoods and families to take ownership of the actions of their children and family members.
By ownership, I mean they are ultimately responsible to teach them to abide by the law and try and be as productive and self sufficient as possible. I think when people are raised that way, they don't feel the need to turn to crime to support themselves.
Now I realize that this statement is extremely simplistic consdering history and generations of people who have been shunned by the powers that be.
I get all that.
But I do think at some point, we need to remove ourselves from the cycle of crime that grips many cultures.
My own Tongan American community has a HUGE problem with high school drop outs, kids involved in gangs and drugs and what not. Its a issue that has no easy answer.
Well -- I'm 52 years old, and I grew up in a rural/suburban very safe area back east -- and as kids we had an enforced curfew of midnight -- I think. It may have been earlier, like 11. After that time we had to be driven home if we were out.
And, if we were out soaping windows (that was about the worst thing we ever did as kids -- well -- we tick tacked and corned houses when the residents were awake, other wise what's the point) and we got caught -- not only would we have to wash the windows we soaped -- we got put in the back seat of the police car and taken home to our parents, who would be woken up and embarrassed. THEN the parents would proceed to dress us down in front of said cops (who we went to church with) and grounded.
In short -- curfews are nothing new. They are something that SHOULD be enforced.
I grew up in in a California city where they had curfew as well, but I think you failed to make the connection between curfews being something you grew up with and being something that SHOULD be enforced
I'm not entirely familiar with things like "soaping" or "corning" houses, but it sounds like what you were doing falls under "vandalism." Now let me point out two things:
1) There are already rules in place for vandalism. You were doing more than just being outside at night. If minors are caught vandalizing property in Oakland, I'm sure they get in trouble, curfew laws or no.
2) Merely being outside hurts no one, corning or tick tacking or whatever probably does. So if you guys were just outside having fun or taking a walk or minding your own business or whatever, would there have been any reason for you to be approached, harassed, questioned, ticketed, etc by an older man with a gun?
Last edited by SirHandsome; 08-20-2011 at 02:21 PM..
My point was that such things can work. I cannot find a good example in Oakland because Oakland hasn't done it yet LOL. SD and Oakland were at one time almost equal. The only thing that saved my ass was that my cousin was in a gang that was "friends" with the one in my neighborhood. Otherwise I would have gotten really f u c k e d up or worse. How's that for Disneyland?
Today however you are right, the two cities do not at all compare. That was my point in making that comparison. I hope you're not the only one who couldn't see that.
SD and Oakland were equal in like 1930 dude. LOL. SD never had the manufacturing which attracted a large black population from the south. And with that, did not suffer the same level of decline with the manufacturing industry went kaput and poor folks had no jobs. Your trying to compare gang injunctions in a city with very few real ghetto neighborhoods, where the police have the green light to crack skulls. SDPD is hard core. Oakland is a city that can not even send police to respond to burglaries. You have to file your report online. And there are tons of edgy neighborhoods to compliment the lack of police. People get robbed and wait hours for the police to show up and take a report. And quite frankly some of the residents of Oakland are not concerned with petty crimes like people in SD are. They have grown a thick skin. Prostitution and open air drug markets are now on the lowest of police priorities. Try drinking a beer on the beach in SD, bonus points if you have scruffy facial hair. See how fast you are swarmed by the authorities (life guards, sheriffs, SDPD, etc ). It has been well documented in the newspapers at some of these council meetings, the local residents come out and actually defend the gang bangers. How the hell is OPD supposed to fix certain neighborhoods where half the people don't have the will to dig in and help themselves????????? You really just don't see that type of mentality in SD for the most part. In fact it is usually the polar opposite.
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), are impressionable, more apt to be swayed by peer pressure and are not mentally and intellectually mature enough to think and act like adults.
