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Old 10-26-2011, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,754,073 times
Reputation: 28561

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I am in the 99% and support the idea of the movement. But I do not support free reign (as Parti said) or violent protests. Unfortunatley the professional protestors are out and ruining the vision. And well since this pseudo movement is fractured, no one really knows what is going on.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:21 PM
 
Location: San Leandro
4,576 posts, read 9,137,938 times
Reputation: 3248
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
I am in the 99% and support the idea of the movement. But I do not support free reign (as Parti said) or violent protests. Unfortunatley the professional protestors are out and ruining the vision. And well since this pseudo movement is fractured, no one really knows what is going on.

As long as the cheap outdoor-weed keeps flowing, they wont know or care about what is really going on. Half of them don't know what is really going on to being with. Which is why they usually look so grungy.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:28 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,914 posts, read 14,695,744 times
Reputation: 3119
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post
As long as the cheap outdoor-weed keeps flowing, they wont know or care about what is really going on. Half of them don't know what is really going on to being with. Which is why they usually look so grungy.

It was a fairly focused movement the first day at least (when I was there)... it was organized, everybody had something to say, etc. I can't speak for now as I've been avoiding DT Oakland for the past week but as far as the "perpetual protesters" go, they're a black eye to every protest they attend... most of the time they're the resident anarchists from CAL or the burbs who think that going to Oakland is an excuse to start a riot and destroy property, burn cars, etc. If OWS is serious then they should not welcome this group of people, they should banish them.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:30 PM
 
Location: San Leandro
4,576 posts, read 9,137,938 times
Reputation: 3248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava View Post
It was a fairly focused movement the first day at least (when I was there)... it was organized, everybody had something to say, etc. I can't speak for now as I've been avoiding DT Oakland for the past week but as far as the "perpetual protesters" go, they're a black eye to every protest they attend... most of the time they're the resident anarchists from CAL or the burbs who think that going to Oakland is an excuse to start a riot and destroy property, burn cars, etc. If OWS is serious then they should not welcome this group of people, they should banish them.
The only resident anarchists from Cal are the ones who hang out in the dorms but dont actually go to school there. Everyone was far too busy with midterms and what not to bother with this crap. Maybe Laney, SFSU, and CSU Haywar... I mean CSUEB perhaps, but not too many from Cal... If I had to guess.
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,641 posts, read 67,264,742 times
Reputation: 21179
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post
As long as the cheap outdoor-weed keeps flowing, they wont know or care about what is really going on.
I think there is some measure of truth in this statement.

The message is too diluted by different factions pushing for different things. If the focus is corporate greed and how they have poisoned the halls of government, wall street and main street, then they should stick to that message and repeat it till their eyeballs fall out.

They really should have done focus groups with PR consultants to fashion a clear and concise message. I suppose such things are a bit antithetical the whole 'Occupy' movement.
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
9,197 posts, read 16,793,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post

The message is too diluted by different factions pushing for different things.
Even more diluted - they've added police brutality in there now. Effectively throwing bombs and tons of tear gas at the protesters in Oakland, and fracturing the skull of an Iraq vet will do that. Mayor Quan's got herself deep in the shyte now.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:02 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
330 posts, read 747,831 times
Reputation: 324
I agree with OWS that there is a big problem in this country, and I think that problem is rooted in crony-capitalism or "corporatism" (which I would guess they would agree with).

However, I don't think capitalism itself is inherently bad, in fact I think its the ANSWER to our problems if we are committed to the *true* principles of capitalism. Capitalism only becomes bad when government distorts the free market by taking actions like bailing out banks, offering corporate subsidies, restricting or discouraging competition, manipulating the money supply, favoring certain industries, and generally not allowing for a truly competitive environment in which you are allowed to be as much of a success or failure as you deserve to be. The system we are operating under now is NOT capitalism, and I fear some of the OWS crowd does not understand this and therefore are inclined to offer more radical solutions.

Although I may be wrong! (I hope I'm wrong!) Maybe they do understand this, its just tough to tell because the message is so diluted and incoherent. I read about OWS everyday and have still been unable to understand what solutions they are advocating - I know they are unhappy, and I share their anger, but I'm not quite sure if we'd agree on how to fix things.

Regarding the crowd, OWS is going to have a tough time winning over the hearts and minds of middle America if the violence continues. (They think they have the "99%" but the reality is most people have either outright rejected their cause or have yet to decide if its worthy of their support). I certainly am not defending the actions of the police, but you can't claim any sort of moral high ground if you throw bottles, rocks, and dump paint on police officers. They might take cue from someone like MLK if they want to know how to truly stage an effective protest.

Unfortunately there are a number of anarchists that will riot for the sake of rioting (see: Vancouver after the Canucks lost the Stanley Cup). People like this: An Occupy Oakland protester who gave her - Media (70 of 88) Police tear gas Occupy Oakland protesters (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2011/10/25/BAUB1LLTC9.DTL&object=%2Fc%2Fpictures%2F2011%2F10% 2F25%2Fba-OCCUPY26_0504432225.jpg - broken link)

I feel bad for those that are truly invested in the cause as these kind of people shed a terrible light on OWS. They need to figure out a way to disassociate themselves from the hooligans.
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:48 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 2,038,795 times
Reputation: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdumbgod View Post
Even more diluted - they've added police brutality in there now. Effectively throwing bombs and tons of tear gas at the protesters in Oakland, and fracturing the skull of an Iraq vet will do that. Mayor Quan's got herself deep in the shyte now.
I know, I wonder why the police couldn't have just verbally ordered the protestors to disperse before resorting to force... Oh, wait...
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Old 10-27-2011, 04:53 PM
 
Location: San Leandro
4,576 posts, read 9,137,938 times
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The Iraq vet deserved what he got. I am by no means a fan of the police, especially Oakland Police, but at the end of the day, how ever you feel about the police, does not matter. You do not assault and batter or attempt to assault the police or you will go down, hard, period.

That guy knew exactly what he was getting himself into. He was at a protest that was declared unlawful by the police. He failed then obey a police order to leave. When OPD fired tear gas to get the crowd to leave, he thought he was going to be Mr Big Shot.

You can see in the video he goes right for a tear gas cannister to throw it back at the cops. And then he is promptly shot in the head.

In the Military at boot camp they teach you three things very quickly.
1)Obey your orders
2)Don't start none, won't be none
3) Stupid is, as stupid does

He has no one to blame but himself. Perhaps if he does not like the way OPD handles things, he should quit his job and move back to his parents house, which is in Wisconsin. Maybe they do things differently in Occupy Milwaukee.
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:14 PM
 
Location: South Korea
5,242 posts, read 13,044,398 times
Reputation: 2957
Good thing people fighting for the gay rights movement, black civil rights movement, anti-Vietnam War movement and many other movements didn't cower in response to police attacks enacted on flimsy laws about the right to assembly, which is what you're proposing.
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