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Old 12-06-2011, 05:31 PM
 
Location: South Korea
5,242 posts, read 13,031,549 times
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I had sesame chicken with rice from New Ming's earlier for $4.90. Yeah there's a lot of cheap places to eat but prices are still higher mainly if you're going for a sit-down dinner with drinks. Pretty much every time I go out to eat in the Bay Area I spend $20 with tip, in other states it's less. Getting a cheap lunch is about $5 to $7, same as most other states, though I've noticed the prices at a lot of lunch places in downtown SF are creeping upwards, stuff that was $5 a few years ago is $7 or more now. And there's a lot of fancier lunch places in downtown SF now that charge more, but the old standbys are still there if you want to save a few bucks.

But I think that while prices have been high here for quite a while, they have only gone up maybe $1-2 for a meal over the last 8 years since I've lived here, but inflation and new taxes have hit the rest of the country and pushed up their prices. When I first moved here my eyes bugged out when I saw $9 packs of beer in San Francisco because I was used to seeing the same beer go for $6 in Florida. Now when I go back home to Florida, those six-packs are $9 too, and they're still $9 to $10 here. Same with other grocery items. Going out to eat is cheaper in other states but I see the same thing, their prices going up quite a bit while ours are high but stay the same. Maybe Californian businesses are more efficient at dealing with rising costs.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
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Back to te point, urban living in the Bay Area allows for pretty cheap food. My Scheule included one or two trips to the Commissary a month for staples, a walk to Trader Joes once a week returning on Muni with a bag of goodies and then local shopping almost daily. That is NOT the normal in most of the country where it's Super Market or SlaveMart
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
10,489 posts, read 6,100,692 times
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Ok then. My original point was for a family of four you are looking at more like $800, to spend on food per month.

I'm going to bow to everyone's better knowledge here about the cheap take out food. But even given that, lets say you spend an average of $5 per person for lunch. That's $20 for a family of 4. Do that everyday for a month and you are already up to $560.
And that's just lunch.
What about breakfast and dinner?
I'm assuming we haven't factored in drinks here.

Its probably not going to be nutritionally great either for the kiddy-winks, and you don't really know what is going into the food.

I'm unconvinced.

I will allow though that with take out you probably end up with less wastage.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:48 PM
 
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$75K for a Single person is OK in San Fran.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:52 PM
 
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I haven't read all the responses, but here goes my two cents. It will be tight, but assuming that you don't have much existing debt (and depending on how much you will have to pay for health insurance) yes, you can do it on that salary. Daycare is expensive, so depending on your field, you may well find that it still makes financial sense to stay at home until they're a bit older. I think a family of four living on that salary with one parent working is definitely doable, but if you're both working you'll need to make sure that the second salary is high enough to justify the costs.

If you pick the right neighborhood you do not need a car, and can factor those savings into your rental budget. I would, however, budget in some money to either join a carshare program or rent a car once in awhile. Also don't forget to budget in public transportation; BART can be tremendously expensive, but if you live in the city you can probably get by with just a MUNI pass, which are pretty cheap.

I totally disagree with those who say that 75k/year is not a middle class salary in SF. Now if you want to rent a big place (i.e. more than two bedrooms) and want to own a car, then it's going to be far tougher.

For what it's worth, we initially left the city because of high costs, and are now moving back. If you don't mind forgoing the car and can find an "affordable" neighborhood (we really like the Richmond District, which seems to offer one of the best blends of relatively affordable housing, livability without a car, easy access to downtown via express buses -- cheaper than BART -- and great for families) then yes, I think you can do it, especially if you expect your husband's salary to increase with time. Now whether or not you think it is worth the sacrifice is up to you.

As far as food costs, if you have the time and inclination you can do your shopping pretty cheap. The produce stores on Clement are generally very affordable, and many of the restaurants ARE cheap. Add in Smart and Final and Trader Joe's and you can get by on a budget. If, however, you eat a lot of packaged convenience foods it can really add up; our solution is to stock up on non-perishables (like boxes of pasta, cereal, etc.) when we can buy it on sale or during a time when we have a rental car. Diapers, too, can kill you, but (wish I'd thought of this earlier) you can order them online. In any case, if you WANT to live in San Francisco on that salary, don't have a lot of debt, and depending on health insurance premiums, you can still live a middle-class family lifestyle on that salary if you pick the right place to live and are willing to get by with less space (and be a renter) and without a car. You won't have a lot of room left over for vacations (although you can probably still do some, and there's some great places to see within easy driving distance of SF!) or large savings for retirement, but it still may be worth it if there's room for career advancement. If you want to buy a house, a car, and have separate rooms for each kid, plus take annual vacations to Hawaii and weekends in Tahoe, then no, it's not nearly enough.

FYI, if you end up in the city then check out Golden Gate Mothers Group, which is an excellent resource for SF parents. You have to pay to join, but it's worth it (also a good resource if you decide to go back to work and need a nanny-share, etc.), especially when you're still new in town. I think some of the neighboring areas have similar groups.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarkar View Post
Despite being one of the priciest cities in the US, a single person can easily survive on less than half of that salary in the city if he ditches his car and rents a room in a shared housing arrangement.

However, even my frugal-savvy self is not gonna have an easy time working with a $75K salary for 4 people. The cost of getting 4 monthly Muni passes vs. owning a car might not be in favor of ditching the car.. also parking is insanely expensive so you'll probably end up going to the suburbs (San Mateo County) for your family outings.

Put it simply, I'd rather make $30k/yr in SF as a single person than $75k/yr supporting a family AND living in the city.
Keep in mind that two out of the four here are young children; that's only two
muni passes (I think after age 5 they pay $21 or so). And MUNI passes are very affordable, much cheaper than owning a car. We ran the numbers and realized that in most of the areas outside of the city where we'd be willing to live we'd still feel like we needed a car, and then would end up paying for BART (or ferry) PLUS the car. It wasn't worth it. We decided to pay slightly more for rent and just return to the Richmond and factor in the cost of both MUNI passes for two adults (which we can get pre-tax through work) and just rent a car when we need/want one. In general, though, I can get around most places on foot, although still find the MUNI pass generally worth it. I'm not sure when kids have to start paying full-fare, but it won't be until years down the road for the OP's family.
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Old 12-07-2011, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Bay Area
2,406 posts, read 7,877,334 times
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In San Francisco, no, its not really doable for 4, I suspect you would want a 3 bedroom place and that would run minimum about $3k month in San Francisco. I can't imagine the type of place you would get.
Outside in the East Bay, rents are lower so yes its more feasible. I've lived all over, east coast, south, midwest, and have out of town guests quite often from there as well who are shocked at the low food costs here. Food, as far as grocery stores, farmer's markets and your hole in the wall restaurants is MUCH less expensive here. I find that utility costs are much lower too. That said, rent is outrageous, so you really have to factor that in to see if its worth it.
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Old 12-07-2011, 03:33 PM
 
10,629 posts, read 26,632,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davachka View Post
In San Francisco, no, its not really doable for 4, I suspect you would want a 3 bedroom place and that would run minimum about $3k month in San Francisco. I can't imagine the type of place you would get.
Outside in the East Bay, rents are lower so yes its more feasible. I've lived all over, east coast, south, midwest, and have out of town guests quite often from there as well who are shocked at the low food costs here. Food, as far as grocery stores, farmer's markets and your hole in the wall restaurants is MUCH less expensive here. I find that utility costs are much lower too. That said, rent is outrageous, so you really have to factor that in to see if its worth it.
Why do you assume they want a 3-BR place? A 2-BR is perfectly reasonable. I think you're jumping to conclusions here.

Now if the OP IS dead-set on a big place, then no, not doable. But if they, like many, many families, are okay with the kids sharing a room, then a 2-BR is doable. (and, FWIW, we just looked at a 2-BR place in SF with an extra room that could be used as a third bedroom; it's listed at $2,100, which is probably more than the OP would want to spend, but there are 2-BRs that go for under 2k.)
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Old 12-07-2011, 03:42 PM
 
3,098 posts, read 3,766,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist View Post
Why do you assume they want a 3-BR place? A 2-BR is perfectly reasonable. I think you're jumping to conclusions here.

Now if the OP IS dead-set on a big place, then no, not doable. But if they, like many, many families, are okay with the kids sharing a room, then a 2-BR is doable. (and, FWIW, we just looked at a 2-BR place in SF with an extra room that could be used as a third bedroom; it's listed at $2,100, which is probably more than the OP would want to spend, but there are 2-BRs that go for under 2k.)
granted middle class lifestyle does not have the same meaning for everyone but a family of 4 liviing in a 2 bedroom apartment and not being able to afford a car is not a middle class lifestyle by my standards.
sorry but that's my opinion.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,706,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmaster View Post
granted middle class lifestyle does not have the same meaning for everyone but a family of 4 liviing in a 2 bedroom apartment and not being able to afford a car is not a middle class lifestyle by my standards.
sorry but that's my opinion.
+1

$75k for a family of four isn't middle class in the Bay Area.

I think of middle class as having a comfortable lifestyle, and being able to afford to live in a good neighborhood and not have to worry too much about household expenses.

At $75K here, you would still need to watch every penny.
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