Aussie moving to California - My work in Santa Clara, wife in downtown SF - where to live? (Los Angeles: apartment, to rent)

[sydneytosanfran]

Hi all,

Been reading up on this forum and all the 'where to live' threads, but it's hard when you really have no idea about the 'feel' of individual cities and suburbs! Will be tabbing back to Google Maps after every suggestion...

Anyway I may soon have a job offer from a Tech company in Santa Clara. My wife may be able to transfer with her work to a Financial company in downtown SF. We're just after some preliminary information on where to live that will minimise the commute for both of us, and maximise our experience of the 'Californian' way of life...

Some background:
- Late twenties, no kids (and no plans for a few years yet)
- Born and bred in Australia - used to city lifestyle
- Prefer the 'urban, inner city' kind of vibe, mainly to walk everywhere, and for access to a variety of restaurants/cafes - not so much partying/clubbing anymore
- Looking for modernish 1 or 2 bdr apartment, initial budget ~$2000 pm
- May purchase one car, but not two - so at least one of us would need good access to public transport (probably her)
- Both fairly outdoorsy - access to beach/parks/trails would be nice
- Of Asian descent, so perfectly happy being surrounded by cheap Asian food

From a purely Geographic point of view, I've been looking at the areas halfway between our potential places of work - i.e San Mateo, Redwood City, Palo Alto on the Peninsula, and Fremont and Hayward on the East Bay

Another thing I've noticed as an ongoing theme in these threads... Is crime a significant issue in SF and surrounds? I find it really interesting that this index is such a large factor

I think that's about it - let me know if you'd like further details. And thanks in advance for the suggestions!


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[80skeys]

There's only two places in the Bay Area with the urban, city vibe, and that's San Francisco and Oakland (Berkeley included). The rest of the areas are a "suburb" vibe, although you will find decent, albeit small downtown areas in most of the towns on the Peninsula (San Mateo, Redwood City, etc.)

The "feel" of the towns along the Peninsula is pretty much the same, with the exception of Redwood City which has a "grittier" feel to it. Basically the Peninsula is a mostly upper-middle class suburbia. There's a lot of activity during the day, with people going to work and flooding the restaurants at lunchtime. At night, there are some decent bars scattered around. On weekends, some decent clubs scattered here and there. But after hours and on weekends, neighborhoods are mostly peaceful/sleepy. You won't see people hanging out on the streets like they do in San Francisco.

- Access to the outdoors is pretty consistent no matter where you are in the Bay Area.
- Cheap Asian food is everywhere to be had. (Actually the South Bay, in my opinion, has much better Asian food than San Francisco.)

San Francisco, of course, is San Francisco. It's a great city. What it boils down to is if you guys *need* the urban environment because you will be bored to tears in suburbia, in which case you'll need to live in San Francisco and your wife, unfortunately will have to make the long and arduous daily commute to Santa Clara.

Or, if you're willing to compromise for the sake of an easy commute to both your jobs, then San Mateo is definitely a worthwhile option, and its downtown area will give you a "little bit" of the urban feel.

Forget about the East Bay: the commute to Santa Clara will be difficult. You'd be better off just living in San Francisco in that case.

As far as crime, almost all of the Peninsula (90%) is virtually crime-free. The exceptions to this are East Palo Alto, Redwood City, and Daly City.

The East Bay has much more noticeable crime as does San Francisco.

[mayorhaggar]

You can take Caltrain to San Francisco from dozens of towns up and down the Peninsula (aka San Mateo County) and Silicon Valley. The only catch is that the terminus station in SF is about a 20 minute walk from Market Street which is where most offices are, and I'm assuming that your wife will be working more around Market Street. The alternative to the 20 minute walk is catching a bus or light rail (Muni Metro) train to the heart of downtown SF, which adds more to the commuting cost, plus the buses and light rail in SF are pretty flaky. But if she is working near 4th and King where the Caltrain station is, Caltrain would be a great choice. She's probably not going to want to drive to downtown SF because parking is extremely expensive.

There's a Caltrain station in Santa Clara but my guess is your office won't be close to it, so you'll want to drive to work.

I'd pick some town on the 101/280 corridor that is in between SF and Santa Clara, most of them have nice little downtown areas where you can walk around. If you lived near one of these downtown areas, like Castro Street in Mountain View, you could walk to shops and restaurants and your commutes would be more equal.

[sydneytosanfran]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the responses.

I've had a closer look, and the office in Santa Clara is walkable from the Caltrain station - meaning that even if we did live in SF, my commute wouldn't be much more than the train itself (1hr 10min) + walking time to and from the stations. Not so bad - gives me a little exercise and then i can sleep/read/work on the train. The bonus here is that the wife can just walk to work.

It looks like ~$2000 will get us a decent 1 bedroom apartment around South Beach/China Basin, whereas it will get us a larger apartment/small house in San Mateo.

Anyway, I'll continue researching. If any other Aussies are reading this, I'd love to hear your opinions on the difference in work/life balance. I have a suspicion that I won't be enjoying 40 hour weeks, or sneaking off early to head to the beach for the afternoon, let alone 4 weeks leave!

[80skeys]

Originally Posted by sydneytosanfran

I've had a closer look, and the office in Santa Clara is walkable from the Caltrain station - meaning that even if we did live in SF, my commute wouldn't be much more than the train itself (1hr 10min) + walking time to and from the stations. Not so bad - gives me a little exercise and then i can sleep/read/work on the train.

Think hard before you commit to that. Listen to people who have the experience of doing that commute. I did it for 8 months last year (Sunnyvale to San Francisco). My wife currently does the same commute. Neither of us like it at all. It's a long, boring, inconvenient waste of time. The train vibrates too much for reading and what kind of quality sleep can one actually get on a commuter train?

Believe me when we moved to the Bay Area, I really wanted to live in San Francisco, and I still think about it from time to time. But I can't justify it. In SF you pay more for a poorer quality, smaller apartment, and so many of the IT jobs are in the South Bay. Anybody who works in IT is eventually going to find themselves working in the South Bay.

[mayorhaggar]

Originally Posted by sydneytosanfran

I have a suspicion that I won't be enjoying 40 hour weeks, or sneaking off early to head to the beach for the afternoon, let alone 4 weeks leave!

Lots of people in the Bay Area work 80+ hour weeks, especially in tech. 40 is getting off really easy. And if you're in tech, I wouldn't be surprised if your "40 hour week" was stretched to 60 or 80 now and then when big projects come up.

[yowps3]

Not sure where your from ..

But I'm from Sydney myself, and regarding safety, you are much safer anywhere in California then Sydney.. Not only safety from a crime perspective..

But Sydney is a very violent city, and violence is a culture thing for Aussies..

Also road rage, in Sydney you'rerisking your life on the road, it's very easy for serious violence to occur on the road, very bad and rude drivers in Sydney..

California is more relaxed..

[rah]

Originally Posted by yowps3

Not sure where your from ..

But I'm from Sydney myself, and regarding safety, you are much safer anywhere in California then Sydney.. Not only safety from a crime perspective..

But Sydney is a very violent city, and violence is a culture thing for Aussies..

Also road rage, in Sydney you'rerisking your life on the road, it's very easy for serious violence to occur on the road, very bad and rude drivers in Sydney..

California is more relaxed..

Uhh...I'm pretty sure American cities are generally much more crime ridden than Australian ones.

example: the Australian state of New South Wales, pop. 7.3 million, had 89 murders in 2006 (Australian Institute of Criminology - Homicide statistics). The Bay Area, on the other hand, pop. 7.5 million, had around 350 murders...which was about 100 more murders than the entire nation of Australia had that year, with a homicide rate 3-4 times higher than NSW.

[yowps3]

Originally Posted by rah

Uhh...I'm pretty sure American cities are generally much more crime ridden than Australian ones.

example: the Australian state of New South Wales, pop. 7.3 million, had 89 murders in 2006 (Australian Institute of Criminology - Homicide statistics). The Bay Area, on the other hand, pop. 7.5 million, had around 350 murders...which was about 100 more murders than the entire nation of Australia had that year, with a homicide rate 3-4 times higher than NSW.

That may be true, but current trend is that crime in Sydney is rising, it's not all about homicide, the reason for high homicide in California is due to he gangs, bloods, crisps etc etc.. They're slowing becoming extinct.. Notice how crime in Los Angeles is at 50year low..

Where as crime in sydney is at all time high..

Where homicide is crime, but there also many different types of crime, lately there has been a massive surge in drive by shootings in Sydney, no one has been killed, so the numbers do not go into he homicide statistics, but they're still crimes..

But my original post still holds, California is much more relaxed and much less violent then Sydney..

[rimmerama]

Crime in the bay area (and pretty much all of the U.S) is rather concentrated. If you live in a nice city on the peninsula, I suspect you'll find yourself just as safe as the nice parts of Australia.

I would recommend you check out the Menlo Park/Palo Alto area, nice little downtowns, affluent, due to Stanford being located there, above average restaurants and cultural activities, and plenty of hiking trails in the foothills.

As for cars - would your wife's employer provide parking? Otherwise you're looking at 300 bucks a month for her to rent a space in S.F for work.