Should a family of 5 with small kids not even consider living in SF? (San Francisco: rental, limo)

[Larry Siegel]

Interesting perspectives.

Living in any big city is a hassle with small children, and then a different kind of hassle when they need to go to a good high school.

But I've never heard anyone call me a breeder. And I am one. I mostly think of "breeder" as gay slang for heterosexuals, and gay people have always been very polite and accepting of my peculiar lifestyle. I've heard tell of the mommy wars in New York, and that's a good reason to go there only for short vacations.

[capoeira]

Originally Posted by Tarheelkid

After reading this forum, it seems we probably shouldn’t even consider SF? I know the schools are spotty but are there other reasons? There’s a lot in SF that appeals to me, but I wonder since I’ll usually have three small kids in tow if that means I probably won’t be able to take advantage of what SF has to offer and that I should just stick to the 'burbs. Thoughts?

If you want to consider San Francisco go ahead and do it. I suggest looking in the quieter areas like Forest Knolls,Midtown Terrace,Twin Peaks,Parkside,Forest Hills and West Portal. These areas are a quick under 20 minute commute via the K,L or M lines from either the Forest Hills or West Portal Muni stations (when the train is working properly and not stuck). Be sure to check out the kid friendly walkable neighborhood of West Portal with two unique toy stores.

Check out the SF park & rec site.

SF Rec & Park Recreation Programs Page

Sava Pool - San Francisco, CA

There are a lot of little playgrounds in the city.

Midtown Terrace Playground in San Francisco, CA 94131 | Parents Connect Local

San Francisco’s Best Playgrounds « CBS San Francisco

SF does have some good elementary schools if you can get in. The good news is that once the oldest kid gets admitted the siblings have priority at that school. The bad news is that placements at these schools are competitive but someone does come out the winner in these SF school lottos. Research the SFUSD placement process.

California School Ratings, school profiles, test scores - San Francisco County

For convenient shopping one needs to leave SF such as this drive to the two Targets in either Daly City or Colma.

Driving Directions - Target

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by lostfan13

And whoever linked the school scores for Alameda / Contra Costa county is misleading, as it includes rich areas like Danville (one of the richest cities in Norcal), and upper middle class areas like San Ramon, Moraga, etc.

No misleading whatsoever, you and your neighbors appear to be totally ignorant about what the 'East Bay' is.

THE EAST BAY IS LARGE AND DIVERSE and is more than just Oakland. So if the 650 snobberati mean 'Oakland', say 'Oakland', but to generalize by saying the "East Bay" makes your arguments vulnerable to places such as Piedmont and Orinda, which collectively STOMP all over Peninsula's schools.

Consider yourself officially informed.




Furthermore, here's an Oakland-specific school stat your NOT going to like:

Wall Street Journal National Ranking of Top 65 Prep Schools, 2007-2008
California
5 Polytechnic School, Pasadena
6 College Prepatory School, Oakland
15 Crystal Springs Uplands School, Hillsborough
21 San Francisco University High School, San Francisco
22 Menlo School, Atherton
25 Harker School, San Jose
28 Webb Schools, Claremont
35 Head-Royce School, Oakland
42 Branson School, Ross
43 Bishop's School, La Jolla
50 Castilleja School, Palo Alto
57 Francis Parker School, San Diego

[GoldenZephyr]

I always wonder why one would willingly put themselves and their children in an environment that is hostile and forces them on a treadmill that grinds them down.

Living in a city like SF offers little that couldn't be had elsewhere for far less money and stress, particularly when it comes to the needs of raising a family.

To each their own I guess, but for me, time with my family exceeds the need to be in the city for whatever the perceived value might be.

[Radio Flyer]

Concerning schools, I just roll my eyes now.

When I lived in SF proper, I was in my twenties and childless and schools weren't even on my radar. Thank God. I can't even imagine trying to navigate through that mess.

I moved to Marin and heard over and over again, "Marin has great schools, probably the best in the state." I have friends in Contra Costa County. They love it there because "They have the best schools in the state." Alrighty, people....whatever you say. By the time my sons were toddlers, I knew that we were on our way out anyway, so I let it go in one ear and out the other.

Fast forward: We've been in New England for 7 years now and lived in 3 towns in two states. Guess what I keep hearing over and over...."Our town is great, best schools in the state!"

GROAN.

Sooooo, my advice: Schools are a priority, no doubt. BUT, take what you hear and read with a grain of salt. Pick a school with high scores, but don't make that the only criteria. Look at the extracurriculars, read reviews, but dismiss those that are obviously written by people with chips on their shoulders, and tour the schools, in person if possible.

One more thing, the highest performing schools are usually in wealthier areas. No surprise there. Well, those wealthier areas often produce snobby, bratty, "keep up with Jones'" kids. I don't like that environment and I don't want my kids continuously feeling "less than". What good is it for a kid to be a student at an A+ school if their self-esteem is always in the gutter?

Find your family's happy medium.

[clongirl]

Originally Posted by Radio Flyer

Concerning schools, I just roll my eyes now.

When I lived in SF proper, I was in my twenties and childless and schools weren't even on my radar. Thank God. I can't even imagine trying to navigate through that mess.

I moved to Marin and heard over and over again, "Marin has great schools, probably the best in the state." I have friends in Contra Costa County. They love it there because "They have the best schools in the state." Alrighty, people....whatever you say. By the time my sons were toddlers, I knew that we were on our way out anyway, so I let it go in one ear and out the other.

Fast forward: We've been in New England for 7 years now and lived in 3 towns in two states. Guess what I keep hearing over and over...."Our town is great, best schools in the state!"

GROAN.

Sooooo, my advice: Schools are a priority, no doubt. BUT, take what you hear and read with a grain of salt. Pick a school with high scores, but don't make that the only criteria. Look at the extracurriculars, read reviews, but dismiss those that are obviously written by people with chips on their shoulders, and tour the schools, in person if possible.

One more thing, the highest performing schools are usually in wealthier areas. No surprise there. Well, those wealthier areas often produce snobby, bratty, "keep up with Jones'" kids. I don't like that environment and I don't want my kids continuously feeling "less than". What good is it for a kid to be a student at an A+ school if their self-esteem suffers?

Find your happy medium.

Written by people with "chips on their shoulders"? Why would you say something like that?

Listen, I don't know if you were implying me, but my kids have attended private Catholic school is San Francisco, public school in a working class suburb of Sacramento, Irish national school in Ireland, Irish immersion Gaelscoil in another part of Ireland, public school in Pleasanton, and now public school in Lamorinda (yes, we've moved around a LOT). I have been happiest with two---the public schools in Lamorinda, and the Irish Gailscoil. So I can speak from some experience on this issue without any "chips on my shoulder". If the OP would like any additional information on specifics then I can certainly help.

If you truly believe that all kids that end up in wealthier areas are snobby, bratty or focused on "things" rather than making a difference in the world then you should meet more people of different economic classes. I know it's a stereotype and it does exist depending on who you end up being exposed to, but I actually don't know many families like that here. I admit, I did see it a bit in Pleasanton and some at the Catholic schools (mostly by the parents), but fortunately the way my kids are RAISED allow them to avoid kids like this and see right through it when confronted with this kind of behavior and mentality.

Of course, test scores aren't the sole criteria when looking for schools. I don't believe that a child with ambition, a desire to learn, and parents that have high expectations will do poorly in any school. Personally, if I had to choose a school then I'd avoid schools with a lot of "cliques" and any safety concerns like bullying and how it's handled by the administrators. Schools where there is little parental involvement would also be a concern.

Personally, I just ended up here and lucked out with a house we could afford in an area I didn't know much about and would have smirked at had I been in my 20's and childless still living in San Francisco. The school situation was just incidental and I couldn't be happier with my kid's experiences here despite the test scores and graduation rates. People do have pride in their school systems...families often donate and want to see that our effort is rewarded. It's not necessarily a bad thing. It's better than shrugging your shoulders when asked if the schools and community you live in are good.

[lostfan13]

My comments were about Oakland, so I should have specified that area instead of the East Bay in general. There's a couple nice cities in the East Bay (that aren't Oakland).. Danville, etc. It's like comparing South Central LA with Bel Air.

But yeah, in general Oakland is incredibly unsafe for a family w/ young kids.

Oakland, CA Crime Map - Showing Crimes in Oakland - Crime Statistics, Alerts and Reports - Crime Stops Here

San Mateo, CA Crime Map - Showing Crimes in San Mateo - Crime Statistics, Alerts and Reports - Crime Stops Here

[mayorhaggar]

Plenty of families with young kids in Rockridge in Oakland, and probably more so in the hills. The main problem is the crappy public schools, not the crime, and SF has the same problem and is way more expensive to boot.

Anyway since hubby's job is near Montgomery BART, I'd definitely look at East Bay suburbs like Walnut Creek or Pleasanton that have BART stations and good school districts. Really the only issue will be your housing budget, but I'm guessing it's enough since you're looking at Mill Valley. Taking BART to downtown SF is really easy, and I'd really recommend the commute from the East Bay over a commute from Marin which will take longer and involve a bus churning through traffic rather than a train zipping through zero traffic.

[chup76]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Yeah, the schools thing is really irksome imo. lol

Especially when it comes to test scores, just saying its not close....


And yet Ive read at least 20 times on here since I joined C-D someone gloating about how superior Peninsula schools are to the East Bay...sorry but I think not, in fact on the contrary.

Not staying there's NO good schools in Oakland but those are like really tiny tiny charter schools.
I doubt just anyone can get into them.

Lowell High School, San Francisco 952 -- student pop of around 2600

American Indian Public High School, Oakland 964 ---> student pop of 220
Mission San Jose High School, Fremont 955 --- student pop of 2200
Oakland Charter High School, Oakland 937 --> student pop of at least 150 at full capacity
Campolindo High School, Moraga 923 --> 1200 ish
Miramonte High School, Orinda 923
Dougherty Valley High School, San Ramon 921
Piedmont High School, Piedmont 916
Acalanes High School, Lafayette 910

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by chup76

Not staying there's NO good schools in Oakland but those are like really tiny tiny charter schools.
I doubt just anyone can get into them.

Lowell High School, San Francisco 952 -- student pop of around 2600

American Indian Public High School, Oakland 964 ---> student pop of 220
Mission San Jose High School, Fremont 955 --- student pop of 2200
Oakland Charter High School, Oakland 937 --> student pop of at least 150 at full capacity
Campolindo High School, Moraga 923 --> 1200 ish
Miramonte High School, Orinda 923
Dougherty Valley High School, San Ramon 921
Piedmont High School, Piedmont 916
Acalanes High School, Lafayette 910

Okay, so that settles Oakland....although it is extremely noticeable to me that San Mateo County doesnt even have 1 high school in the 900 range. OTOH Piedmont High, completely surrounded by Oakland on all sides manages to score in the 900 range.

AND, WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF THE EAST BAY vs. THE PENINSULA which is what I was addressing in the first place?

Just saying, the common misguided theme is that the Peninsula supposedly has public schools that are at another level altogether compared to the East Bay, and I just dont see that being the case, in fact if test scores are the gage, then the opposite is true.