Moving from DC to Berkeley (San Francisco, Oakland: rental, big house, university)

[CirclingLogan]

Originally Posted by rca215

Any non-DC area comparisons?

Really, take the core of any good college town (Madison, Bloomington, Boulder, etc.) and surround it with urban areas and you have Berkeley.

[matt345]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

Berkeley is DEFINITELY similar to Seattle though. Terrible drivers and all!

Berkeley drivers will test the nerves of even the most patient motorists. Never before have I come across so many overly hesitate drivers who act like they have no idea where they're going, changing to the turn lane at the last minute, and just in general acting completely oblivious to their surroundings.

Whether Berkeley is urban or not really depends on your perspective. Someone coming from the East Coast or Midwest will probably find it to be quite suburban in nature, given its abundance of detached homes, segregated zoning, and car dependency. It's definitely not Boston, DC, or Chicago in terms of urbanity and if that's what you're looking for, it's best to just look in San Francisco. However in comparison to the rest of the West Coast, Berkeley is certainly more urban than most other places. Definitely more so than the Phoenix's or Orange Counties, but I don't think it quite matches up to Seattle or Portland.

[rkwalton]

Originally Posted by matt345

Berkeley drivers will test the nerves of even the most patient motorists. Never before have I come across so many overly hesitate drivers who act like they have no idea where they're going, changing to the turn lane at the last minute, and just in general acting completely oblivious to their surroundings.

Heh! I won't miss that. I don't know how many times while riding my bike I dealt with the overconscientious driver. Now I'd rather the drivers be overconscientious than hostile to people on bikes. But there were times where I slowed because the car had the right of way. They'd stop and start to speed up but then see me and slow down. I'd stop because I'm on a bike, and I'm subject to the same rules as cars.

Just go if you've got the right of way and it's clear.

Again, I'm glad they're overconscientious in that sense but initially as I was right out of NYC I had to readjust and get used to it.

[04kL4nD]

That's exactly how they are. Nervous, indecisive slow pokes who hesitate and don't want to commit to anything. Drives me absolutely batty

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by matt345

Whether Berkeley is urban or not really depends on your perspective. Someone coming from the East Coast or Midwest will probably find it to be quite suburban in nature, given its abundance of detached homes, segregated zoning, and car dependency. It's definitely not Boston, DC, or Chicago in terms of urbanity and if that's what you're looking for, it's best to just look in San Francisco. However in comparison to the rest of the West Coast, Berkeley is certainly more urban than most other places. Definitely more so than the Phoenix's or Orange Counties, but I don't think it quite matches up to Seattle or Portland.

A major difference an East Coaster would notice and something that probably sets it apart from true urban living is the lack of row housing. It's pretty much detached homes or apartments. Unless they've been built recently, I can't think of any townhouses in Berkeley.

[snarkadoodle]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

That's exactly how they are. Nervous, indecisive slow pokes who hesitate and don't want to commit to anything. Drives me absolutely batty

TOTALLY agree. But I'm starting to understand why. You never know when a bike, person, or other car is going to fly out in front of you. As someone else pointed out, there isn't a clear sense of "rules of the road" here, so anything goes. I was a pretty confident driver in Seattle (despite the terrible drivers there), but I am finding myself to be much more hesitant and unsure the longer I live in Berkeley. I have already been sideswiped by some idiot without insurance. Ugh.

[staceylynn1]

Originally Posted by rca215

Uh oh. Your post is setting off alarm bells in my head. I am very seriously considering a move from Chicago to Berkeley but am now a bit concerned about the suburban vs. urban aspect of Berkeley.

I certainly wouldn't expect the place to be as densely populated as where I live in Chicago (Lake View neighborhood on Northside), but I was thinking it would be a fairly walkable town with lots of options in terms of bars and restaurants. Is this not the case?

I've been thinking that Berkeley's commercial density would be somewhere along the lines of Boulder, CO or Cambridge, MA - small cities that are still pedestrian-friendly with lots of commercial activity. These are both places I've lived or spent a lot of time.

I'm going out to visit in a few weeks, but I'm wondering whether there are specific areas of Berkeley that I should target to visit because others would be ruled out fairly quickly due to my desire to have a fairly urban living environment. Any tips?

Berkeley is high on my list because the job that might take me to the area is based in Novato. Berkeley seemed like the best balance of urban living and less awful commute.

I'm sorry to set off alarm bells! Please do check it out for yourself. Even though it wasn't the best fit for me, Berkeley might be exactly what you're looking for. I did really like Elmwood and the area of Shattuck just north of the university.

I have never been to Boulder so I can't make that comparison, but I would say Berkeley is less dense than Cambridge. That might not be a bad thing when you consider that Harvard Square can be a complete madhouse.

Originally Posted by rca215

Any non-DC area comparisons?

A friend of mine interned one summer at Dominican University in River Forest, IL. I only spent a couple days there visiting her so I don't know how apt an observation this is, but River Forest might be a good Chicago area comparison to Berkeley in terms of density.

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by staceylynn1

I did really like Elmwood and the area of Shattuck just north of the university.

aka The Gourmet Ghetto.

[CFL_City]

I'd strongly disagree with anyone characterizing the town where I live as "very suburban" as it has very high employment, not just at UC. It is most definitely walkable and bikeable, and its urban form just doesn't call to mind anything like most suburbs. That word would relate it more to San Ramon, Dublin, Pleasant Hill, Fremont, etc. and I think most would agree that Berkeley is much more like Oakland or even San Francisco than any of those towns. It has a density of about 11,000 people per square mile, which is pretty high. It just doesn't feel as dense, because most buildings are detached.

If you structure your life accordingly, living car-free in the Bay Area (not just in SF) is amazing, and this is especially true in Berkeley. Occasionally I think about getting one, but that's really more of a "would be nice" than an essential. A tremendous variety of restaurants and an OK variety of bars within easy biking distance. More bar/pub than lounge/club

I live in West Berkeley, and it's great. I'm within a 15-minute walk of 4th street for chichi shopping, and am closer still to Berkeley Bowl and the diverse businesses lining San Pablo Avenue. The tradeoff is being a long walk from BART. At the same time, due to the lovely 9th Street/Horton Street/Mandela Parkway bike route, I can often get myself to downtown SF in 30 minutes via West Oakland BART. West Berkeley is also far from the university - in fact, I forget I live in a college town sometimes.

BUT Berkeley does have some crusty older residents who resist any opportunity to make the city better. The local politics are grating, and does not have the right-out-your-doorstep urbanism that San Francisco has to offer. To give you some idea of my perspective, I'm a 29-year-old single male, and I would live in San Francisco if I could afford it without roommates. Any of the BART-accessible neighborhoods would double my rent, and since I'm not super high income, my lifestyle would take a significant hit (I live with one other person in Berkeley, but we have a huge place so I don't mind)

Having lived in Somerville for a while, Berkeley is very comparable to Cambridge. It's not as clean or quaint, and lacks amenities like Fresh Pond or the Charles River, but we do have other features that more than make up for it (weather, Tilden, top-end restaurants, proximity to outdoor recreation). Berkeley is more isolated from San Francisco than Cambridge is from Boston, but San Francisco is a bigger draw than Boston, so I'd call it a wash.

[rca215]

Thanks everyone for your input (and sorry to hijack a thread).

This was particularly helpful since I lived in Cambridge for two years...

Originally Posted by CFL_City

Having lived in Somerville for a while, Berkeley is very comparable to Cambridge. It's not as clean or quaint, and lacks amenities like Fresh Pond or the Charles River, but we do have other features that more than make up for it (weather, Tilden, top-end restaurants, proximity to outdoor recreation). Berkeley is more isolated from San Francisco than Cambridge is from Boston, but San Francisco is a bigger draw than Boston, so I'd call it a wash.