What's The Deal With the Berkeley City Council? (San Francisco, Orange: city hall, crime)

[Natural510]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

When's the last time you were in Berkeley? Cody's closed up long time ago. I forget when but it's been a long time. There haven't been any boarded up businesses since the early 90's that I can recall. Berkeley is prime real estate and no business space is vacant for very long. Berkeley Bowl used to be a Safeway and the Walgreens across the street from it used to be a store called Pay-n-Save. Those were vacant the longest. The only place along Telegraph that's boarded up to the best of my knowledge is that former grocery store on Derby across from Willard Middle School. I believe there may be something wrong with that building as well but I'm not sure.

Well, there was a time the buildings that housed Ross, the one on the opposite corner which housed a chain clothing store (name escapes me), storefront next to it (former Gateway), as well as a couple over on Center Street were all vacant. Coupled with what was happening on Telegraph, it was looking pretty bad for Berkeley. I'm glad things are looking up.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Natural510

Well, there was a time the buildings that housed Ross, the one on the opposite corner which housed a chain clothing store (name escapes me), storefront next to it (former Gateway), as well as a couple over on Center Street were all vacant. Coupled with what was happening on Telegraph, it was looking pretty bad for Berkeley. I'm glad things are looking up.

You're talking about the old Hinks dept. store! I'd forgotten about that, and you're right. And the grocery store on the corner down the block was closed, as was a shoe store down the street from the grocery. I'm wondering why that situation was allowed to persist for so long. It happened awhile after a change toward the left happened on the City Council. There were a lot of complaints that Berkeley was indifferent to crime, and those complaints persisted for many years, through successive City Councils.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Natural510

Well, there was a time the buildings that housed Ross, the one on the opposite corner which housed a chain clothing store (name escapes me), storefront next to it (former Gateway), as well as a couple over on Center Street were all vacant. Coupled with what was happening on Telegraph, it was looking pretty bad for Berkeley. I'm glad things are looking up.

Yeah there was, a while ago. I'm not really sure why Berkeley is singled out for this when this sort of thing can be seen in cities everywhere from time to time. You're talking about where the JC Penny once was. That was the Ross. There are several stores in the old Hink's building. As I mentioned, those business locations change hands frequently. Remember, rents are high in Berkeley, we know this from the increase prices we pay to shop there. The rents are what likely drives some businesses away. Some corporate chains simply won't charge more than the rpices they have everywhere so they simply close stores in high rent areas. Then there are others, like the McDonald's on Shattuck and University which has been there for at least 30 years. Other places closed down simply because those companies aren't around anymore. Berkeley had a rather high number of savings and loans in that little area. The Kaplan college building (I think it's a Kaplan) on Center and Shattuck was American Savings. There was Great Western Savings and Home Savings too. We all know what happened to the saving and loan industry. Then others such as Walden Books went out of business. The Walden is where the now abandoned Tully's is. As mentioned, Tully's is closing lots of locations. The businesses Berkeley lost didn't leave because they were in Berkeley but because they have other issues and left regardless where they were.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

You're talking about the old Hinks dept. store! I'd forgotten about that, and you're right. And the grocery store on the corner down the block was closed, as was a shoe store down the street from the grocery. I'm wondering why that situation was allowed to persist for so long. It happened awhile after a change toward the left happened on the City Council. There were a lot of complaints that Berkeley was indifferent to crime, and those complaints persisted for many years, through successive City Councils.

Change toward the left??? How much more left do you think the city can get? it's been that way for at least three generations now. if anything, it's gotten slightly less left as it is a bit less tolerant of people sitting on sidewalks and even just thinking about allowing more chains come in.

[Natural510]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Yeah there was, a while ago. I'm not really sure why Berkeley is singled out for this when this sort of thing can be seen in cities everywhere from time to time. You're talking about where the JC Penny once was. That was the Ross. There are several stores in the old Hink's building. As I mentioned, those business locations change hands frequently. Remember, rents are high in Berkeley, we know this from the increase prices we pay to shop there. The rents are what likely drives some businesses away. Some corporate chains simply won't charge more than the rpices they have everywhere so they simply close stores in high rent areas. Then there are others, like the McDonald's on Shattuck and University which has been there for at least 30 years. Other places closed down simply because those companies aren't around anymore. Berkeley had a rather high number of savings and loans in that little area. The Kaplan college building (I think it's a Kaplan) on Center and Shattuck was American Savings. There was Great Western Savings and Home Savings too. We all know what happened to the saving and loan industry. Then others such as Walden Books went out of business. The Walden is where the now abandoned Tully's is. As mentioned, Tully's is closing lots of locations. The businesses Berkeley lost didn't leave because they were in Berkeley but because they have other issues and left regardless where they were.

Actually I was thinking of that preppy clothing store diagonal from Ross; I just remember its opening was the crown achievement of the Shirley Dean administration, and it closed like two years later cos Berkeley people don't buy that crap (not even the professors).
What really turned me off to the town's political structure was living in South Berkeley, and a guy who brought "Spud's Pizza" to the neighborhood. He told me it took him two years and $500k of red tape through city politics to finally open, on probably the worst retail strip in town (Alcatraz & Adeline). It was an empty storefront when he opened, and it was empty about a year later when he closed. Poor guy is probably still paying off the failed venture. And that was around the time Shattuck & Telegraph also had a significant amount of empties. So yeah, I'm glad things are starting to change.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Change toward the left??? How much more left do you think the city can get? it's been that way for at least three generations now

Not true, unless maybe you're counting a "generation" as 15 years, rather than 20 years. Berkeley was conservative Republican in the 40's and 50's, at least, if not into the 60's. The campus was largely anti-communist/McCarthyist (hard to imagine now, but Berkeley's been through some radical changes), the city was about 90+% white, and opposed housing desegregation. Berkeley was developed in part as a bedroom community for doctors and lawyers practicing in San Francisco, which was one source of the city's conservatism.

Demographic changes beginning in the 60's/late 50's, along with the various student and anti-war movements in the 60's shifted resulted in a shift to liberal/Democratic politics by 1970. Why that would bring about a lack of support for locally-owned businesses and a somewhat laissez-faire outlook toward crime by the City Council, I don't know. Here's a good article that gives a detailed history:

Berkeley, A City in History Chapter 8

Although pro-business Republicans dominated Berkeley politics during the 1940s and 50s, demographic trends were working against them. Not only were largely Democratic black voters moving into the city, but it was often conservative whites who moved out to the suburbs.

[Senno]

Berkeley is pretty far to the left...

Marines in Berkeley - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 03/10/08 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

[chessgeek]

Originally Posted by Senno

Well, y'all have been fighting about homeless sitting on the sidewalks.

Berkeley moves towards a consensus homeless plan | Berkeleyside

Apparently 1,000 new apartments are also being planned, so it's not all bad news for downtown. They are allowing that development.

1,000 new apartments planned for downtown Berkeley | Berkeleyside

[Posted by: Citizens For Greater Diversity Of Topics On The SF/Oakland Forum: Fresno Chapter]

The timing was unfortunate for Cody's Books. Maybe with the 1,000 new apartment units being built, they can be convinced to re-open. However, that seldom occurs. Usually if a business leaves, it is for good.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Not true, unless maybe you're counting a "generation" as 15 years, rather than 20 years. Berkeley was conservative Republican in the 40's and 50's, at least, if not into the 60's. The campus was largely anti-communist/McCarthyist (hard to imagine now, but Berkeley's been through some radical changes), the city was about 90+% white, and opposed housing desegregation. Berkeley was developed in part as a bedroom community for doctors and lawyers practicing in San Francisco, which was one source of the city's conservatism.

Demographic changes beginning in the 60's/late 50's, along with the various student and anti-war movements in the 60's shifted resulted in a shift to liberal/Democratic politics by 1970. Why that would bring about a lack of support for locally-owned businesses and a somewhat laissez-faire outlook toward crime by the City Council, I don't know. Here's a good article that gives a detailed history:

Berkeley, A City in History Chapter 8

Although pro-business Republicans dominated Berkeley politics during the 1940s and 50s, demographic trends were working against them. Not only were largely Democratic black voters moving into the city, but it was often conservative whites who moved out to the suburbs.

I use the term generation loosely and that wasn't the point anyway. Are we talking about the same Berkeley? This "conservative" city was one of the first in the nation to voluntarily desegregate it's schools. Was one of the first cities to bus students across town as well. Later on, Berkeley High's west campus was closed in part to further integrate the student body. Also, in the 40's and 50's, the Republicans were the liberal party. As far as your attempt to make lawyers sound like they are all conservative (most law makers are lawyers and we know how CA's lawmakers are for the most part), again you are way off base. Screw that, you're not even in the ball park at this point but standing in the parking lot trying to remember where you parked, except you took the bus. Charles Lee Tilden was a lawyer from Berkeley. He purchased the land east of the city to preserve it from development. Even at that time, Berkeley had a conservation mentality, including the lawyers. See I went to school in Berkeley, we learned about the history of our area. I lived through the times you keep using as a reference which is how I know you are not current in what you say. Liberals weren't attracted to Berkeley because it was conservative. They went there because the city has always had an underlying left leaning view.

Your handle may be Ruth4Truth but the truth does not occur within 2000 miles of your posts.

[Ruth4Truth]

Conservatives were conservationists back then. If the Bay Area was so liberal, how did Nixon and Reagan get elected?
Much of East Berkeley and part of N Berkeley sent their kids to private schools. Or left for the suburbs, as the article says, so their kids wouldn't have to go to Berkeley High.