Has BART become a Bay Area tax grab? Anyone tired of it? (Sacramento: how much, earthquake)

[Ruth4Truth]

It shouldn't be hard to find out what managers at AC Transit and Muni make. And at CalTrain, and train engineers as CalTrain.

[MrWillys]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

These (bolded) are interesting points. Is "journalism" really defined as unbiased reporting? By whom? Just wondering. That's very intriguing.


I'm not sure anyone "deserves" a middle class wage just because they put in 8 hours/day. Transit driving is unskilled labor. Even more so than AC Transit drivers, who actually drive the transit. In BART's case, they're not actually driving, they're just sitting there. Sure they get trained in safety measures, and all, but drivers aren't what I'd call "hard-working", as Mr.W said. btw, my brother was a BART driver. "Work" hardly enters into their day.

So given the above, it's reasonable that they should get paid commensurately. What do cashiers make in the Bay Area? In Seattle they make around $25/hr., and there's more skill involved. We could say the level of responsibility is about equal, because cashiers have to keep track of the company's money, and BART drivers have various safety issues to be prepared for. I don't think BART drivers deserve to be paid more than unskilled labor, just because we think it would be nice if everyone could buy a house, own a car or two, and have a slew of home appliances, while raising a couple of kids. If workers at the bottom of the pay scale want to make more, they can go to night school, get a degree, and move up, like so many have done before them.

Management should get whatever the pay scale for transit management is in the area or in comparable areas.

Read the Wikipedia page on Journalism!

Also, the Op hasn't defined BART operator wages other than with a biased report that was vague at best.

Funny you bring up a retail clerk: Frank, and I graduated in 1979. He joined retail clerks as a cashier, and I joined the Carpenters, and our wages were within a dollar per hour. 30 years later mine had more than doubled, but his weren't quite $20 per hour thanks to the war against the working class.

I've always upgraded my education throughout the years, and my pay was commensurate as I advanced. With all my education one of the hardest things I remember doing was flagging traffic. I had to take a class, but the pressure of responsibility for my fellow workers up on 60' boom lifts while irritated drivers failed to yield my instruction was intense. My point is that you feel a driver of a computerized vehicle responsible for 100's of lives is unskilled I find comical at best. Would you prefer an illegal alien at the helm?

[Senno]

Well, you do that then. I'm still listening to Splish Splash and screwing around with the NY transit figures. Cause I think their COLA is more comparable to bay area than GLAMA is as a whole.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by MrWillys

Read the Wikipedia page on Journalism!

Also, the Op hasn't defined BART operator wages other than with a biased report that was vague at best.

Funny you bring up a retail clerk: Frank, and I graduated in 1979. He joined retail clerks as a cashier, and I joined the Carpenters, and our wages were within a dollar per hour. 30 years later mine had more than doubled, but his weren't quite $20 per hour thanks to the war against the working class.

I've always upgraded my education throughout the years, and my pay was commensurate as I advanced. With all my education one of the hardest things I remember doing was flagging traffic. I had to take a class, but the pressure of responsibility for my fellow workers up on 60' boom lifts while irritated drivers failed to yield my instruction was intense. My point is that you feel a driver of a computerized vehicle responsible for 100's of lives is unskilled I find comical at best. Would you prefer an illegal alien at the helm?

Good post. idk, but you only have to have a HS diploma (if that) to drive BART. You get on-the-job training, but your skill level when you apply for the job is the same as those cashiers. Your responsibility level is higher, fair enough.

[DocGoldstein]

Originally Posted by MrWillys

Would you prefer an illegal alien at the helm?

Typical Union argument. "If we can't make $120,000, some illegal alien is going to pilot BART trains for $2 an hour."

So are you going to address the fact that the median household income in Livermore is $30,000 lower than what a train engineer can make, or you going to admit that $120,000 isn't a "working poor" "barely making" it wage?

We could also ignore it too, but that would be tacit agreement that your argument simply wrong.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by DocGoldstein

So are you going to address the fact that the median household income in Livermore is $30,000 lower than what a train engineer can make,

What's a "train engineer", please? Is that what you're calling drivers?

[DocGoldstein]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Good post. idk, but you only have to have a HS diploma (if that) to drive BART. You get on-the-job training, but your skill level when you apply for the job is the same as those cashiers. Your responsibility level is higher, fair enough.

Not really. BART, like most modern rail systems, works on computerized signals. All that's required is to know how to read them (3 lights, with a few lighting variations). Then you need to know how to use a lever to make the train go, and stop, and read a speedometer. Not exactly a job that requires "specialized" skills.

Of course what Willy won't admit is that BART engineers only make such extravagant amounts of money because the BART union is pretty much a bunch of criminals who extort the public sector on tax payer backs.

[DocGoldstein]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

What's a "train engineer", please? Is that what you're calling drivers?

That's what BART calls their drivers. Of course, they don't really do any "engineering".

You can have 3 types. Rookie Engineers, journeyman, and principals. All based on seniority.

[Senno]

Originally Posted by DocGoldstein

That's what BART calls their drivers. Of course, they don't really do any "engineering".

You can have 3 types. Rookie Engineers, journeyman, and principals. All based on seniority.

That's like San Francisco calling garbagemen "Sanitation Engineers"

[DocGoldstein]

Originally Posted by Senno

That's like San Francisco calling garbagemen "Sanitation Engineers"

Or housewives "domestic engineers".

To be honest though, "domestic engineers" have a pretty tough job.