SF equivalents to NY neighborhoods? (San Francisco, Oakland: private school, income, live in)

[City Boy]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

I grew up on Long Island. Aside from perhaps Hempstead or Roosevelt there is nothing that compares remotely to Richmond. The vast majority of LI is safe, with great schools, and high education levels.

Remember NYC is exponentially larger than SF bay metro so comparing the boros to the inner suburbs is comparing the distance from downtown SF to it's exurbs.

How many people live in Richmond compared to LI? Richmond only has 100k vs over 7 million in the entire bay area. Not all of Richmond is Bad. How are the public schools near Hempstead and Roosevelt? Well Richmond kids also can go to El Cerrito or Albany which are not bad schools.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by City Boy

Why do you think thats unique to California? That goes for anywhere. There are good schools and bad schools as with everywhere. How many ESL students do those states who rank higher have in comparison to us? Probably nowhere near CA.

I never said that its unique to Ca, its just a major problem. We rank down with Arizona and Mississippi when it comes to schools. So yes Ca is not alone in being like that but there are many other states that are better than Ca when it comes to education. It's not like this "everywhere", other states in the Northeast or upper Mid-West have good schools in lower to middle class communities, that is NOT the case in Ca for the most part. I'm wagering that TX probably has a lot of ESL students as well and they rank higher than CA on education. You can try to sugarcoat and play down CA's education problems all you want but the fact of the matter is that it's not like this in every state and CA ranks poorly on K-12 education and for good reason.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

Don't houses cost 5,600k+ there?

You can buy a 3/2 rancher in East Northport for 350k... and it's a very nice area.

Im not sure I get the relevence of home prices.

Surely if you want a less expensive place, the Greater NY Area is cheaper than The Bay Area.

But home prices havent deterred Immigrants from pouring into the BA and today Immigrants and their US Born Children are half of the entire BA population.

On top of being extremely diverse, most of the cities I mentioned above are reasonably priced, relatively safe, have good schools and are overall nice places to live.

[City Boy]

Originally Posted by sav858

I never said that its unique to Ca, its just a major problem. We rank down with Arizona and Mississippi when it comes to schools. So yes Ca is not alone in being like that but there are many other states that are better than Ca when it comes to education. It's not like this "everywhere", other states in the Northeast or upper Mid-West have good schools in lower to middle class communities, that is NOT the case in Ca for the most part. I'm wagering that TX probably has a lot of ESL students as well and they rank higher than CA on education. You can try to sugarcoat and play down CA's education problems all you want but the fact of the matter is that it's not like this in every state and CA ranks poorly on K-12 education and for good reason.

What good schools are in the low income neighborhoods of Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Toledo, Atlanta etc etc etc. These stats of trying to determine education rankings state by state are ridiculous. Texas has a lower High School Graduation rate than CA. What's the basis for all these "Stats".

[sav858]

Originally Posted by City Boy

What good schools are in the low income neighborhoods of Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Toledo, Atlanta etc etc etc. These stats of trying to determine education rankings state by state are ridiculous. Texas has a lower High School Graduation rate than CA. What's the basis for all these "Stats".

I'm not talking about just low income, I'm talking about lower-MIDDLE CLASS to MIDDLE CLASS too. And you bring up high crime and/or rust belt cities to compare it too, give me a break! Also TX seems to have the same rate of graduation as CA: http://www.manhattan-institute.org/h...ix_table_1.htm

And you're talking about specific large cities now, I'm talking about the state and all of the cities, towns, and suburbs in it.

Just b/c you don't like what the stats say doesn't make them "ridiculous". If the stats said the opposite and CA was a great state for schools you'd probably be all over that and citing it, but b/c it doesn't tell you what you want to hear you just dismiss it?

Just take a look at where the good schools are and where they are not on this map, plenty of middle class areas in CA have bad schools:
California School Performance Maps

[NYSD1995]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Im not sure I get the relevence of home prices.

I am talking about middle class areas with good schools that are affordable. the conversation has wandered, but my point is that NYC metro has MORE middle-class affordable areas with good schools than SF Bay area. I don't really think that is a very controversial statement.

350k in the bay area basically means ghetto, no? Certainly it means bad schools. 350k in East Northport is the house I grew up in... and a high school repeatedly ranked as one of the best in the country.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

I am talking about middle class areas with good schools that are affordable. the conversation has wandered, but my point is that NYC metro has MORE middle-class affordable areas with good schools than SF Bay area. I don't really think that is a very controversial statement.

Telling some people from the Bay Area that the place isn't the best at something or better than somewhere else in a certain category like education will always be controversial to some people here.

[City Boy]

Originally Posted by sav858

I'm not talking about just low income, I'm talking about lower-MIDDLE CLASS to MIDDLE CLASS too. And you bring up high crime and/or rust belt cities to compare it too, give me a break! Also TX seems to have the same rate of graduation as CA: Education Working Paper 3 | appendix table 1

And you're talking about specific large cities now, I'm talking about the state and all of the cities, towns, and suburbs in it.

Just b/c you don't like what the stats say doesn't make them "ridiculous". If the stats said the opposite and CA was a great state for schools you'd probably be all over that and citing it, but b/c it doesn't tell you what you want to hear you just dismiss it?

Just take a look at where the good schools are and where they are not on this map, plenty of middle class areas in CA have bad schools:
California School Performance Maps

So those cities don't count because they are doing bad? You're trying to compare a heavily populated state with a huge amount of ESL immigrants to places with a small group of ESL students who do not end up skewing the education stats. You're trying to compare rural middle class area's in Ohio to Middle class CA which are basically low income closer to major cities. Suburbs in CA are not middle class. They are UPPER middle class. There is hardly a middle class in CA. Middle class here puts you with low income students.

[NYSD1995]

Originally Posted by City Boy

Suburbs in CA are not middle class. They are UPPER middle class. There is hardly a middle class in CA. Middle class here puts you with low income students.

That was exactly my point... why did you spend all this time disagreeing with it?

[18Montclair]

Ya know,
I do a lot of volunteering the some of the schools the state says are bad and to be quite honest, they dont seem to be all that bad. I mean, its not like what I saw in Washington DC(Now that is horrible) where everything is broken.

Case in point, Last week I went to Fruitvale School in Oakland to donate some stuff and when I got there the place actually looked very nice and inviting. It was clean and reminded me of any school in Marin-except for all the cute little brown faces. I dont think what teacher's impart to students is any different to what kids in rich areas learn. There are factors of things outside the school that have a really big affect on how kids perform at school. We dont talk about that enough, instead we blame teachers and schools and that is really dishonest.

Anyway,
I think a person should be careful to judge a school based on test scores alone.