The Bay Bridge Boondongle (San Francisco, Oakland: bike, subway, money)

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Natural510

Of course I do. Are you arguing the UK, EU, South Africa and Australia have stronger economies and a healthier middle-class than the United States?

Not yet but let's be honest. We were once number one with our schools, were not anymore. We once led the world in manufacturing and infrastructure, the topic of this thread proves we don't anymore. We have a way to go before we reach the status of a true third world country but we are not at the top of the pack anymore within the first world.

[04kL4nD]

I don't people understand what "third world" means in this thread...

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

I don't people understand what "third world" means in this thread...

I know what it means but I don't feel like explaining why Switzerland is technically a third world country so I just let it be. Pick your battles.

[krudmonk]

Hopefully these obstacles are largely unique to the end design and methods necessary. I'd hate to lose faith in every freeway overpass or parking garage. These rubes can still pour concrete on rebar, yes?

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Natural510

Of course I do. Are you arguing the UK, EU, South Africa and Australia have stronger economies and a healthier middle-class than the United States?

I don't know about the UK, and South Africa isn't a 1st-World nation (pre-regime change it tried to maintain the fiction that it was, but that's over now). There's no question that the EU and Australia have a healthier middle class than the US. The US is notorious world-wide for trashing its middle class and having the most polarized class system in the developed world.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by krudmonk

Hopefully these obstacles are largely unique to the end design and methods necessary. I'd hate to lose faith in every freeway overpass or parking garage. These rubes can still pour concrete on rebar, yes?

Keep an eye on the quality of the concrete. In Russia they used to water it down, so that it would crumble not long after it was installed. Not sure if they still do. It could happen here.

[humboldtrat]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

We're a civilization in decline. We don't have the money or the motivation to do things right anymore. We don't manufacture as much hardware anymore, so we have to order substitutes from abroad. And we're slipping toward 3rd World status, so we can no longer afford maintenance to existing infrastructure. Expect a lot more stories like this around the country in the decades to come.

Wait until these same people (state of California) build the high speed rail

[Deezus]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

I don't people understand what "third world" means in this thread...

Third World is an outdated term that just referred to the unaligned nations of the Cold War-era. At the time, just about all those nations were undeveloped or developing and most of the highly developed nations in the world--Western Europe and Japan and the USA and Canada and Australia--were part of the non-communist First World.

It's twenty years since the Cold War ended and people still insist on using the term. Truth is though that many of the former "Third World" nations have fast growing economies and increasing middle classes.

There is not a concrete set of levels of economic development that allows us to divide places into accurate divisions of first, second, and third world.

As far as the US being close to the least developed nations of the world--we're so damn far from those places...despite the fact that our infrastructure could use a boost in parts.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

We're a civilization in decline. We don't have the money or the motivation to do things right anymore. We don't manufacture as much hardware anymore, so we have to order substitutes from abroad. And we're slipping toward 3rd World status, so we can no longer afford maintenance to existing infrastructure. Expect a lot more stories like this around the country in the decades to come.

I think the problem is that every one wants every one to be happy with what ever choice is made. Things done in such a committee way take FOREVER to complete and usually in the end make no one happy.

What we need to do as a population is let the people we hire make the decisions and not get in the way. In 1989 the darn bridge broke in a quake. We knew we needed a new one, they made plans for a new one and the mayors started grousing it wasn't pretty, it didn't fit our stature. And more plans were drawn up. And even more plans were drawn up then Arnold got involved......

In all this time and money spent (and keep in mind -- this process profits a fair number of businesses -- all sorts of money is flowing and NOTHING is getting done) all the stuff involved in actually BUILDING a bridge gets more expensive....

Frankly, though, if someone did take the bull by the horns and make a damn decision... we are now SO used to this committee feet dragging process, people would scream bloody murder and sue because they'd just know somehow somewhere someone trampled on their rights.

Because that's another thing wrong with society here -- a large number of people feel their rights are righter than our rights....

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Deezus

Third World is an outdated term that just referred to the unaligned nations of the Cold War-era. At the time, just about all those nations were undeveloped or developing and most of the highly developed nations in the world--Western Europe and Japan and the USA and Canada and Australia--were part of the non-communist First World.

It's twenty years since the Cold War ended and people still insist on using the term. Truth is though that many of the former "Third World" nations have fast growing economies and increasing middle classes.

There is not a concrete set of levels of economic development that allows us to divide places into accurate divisions of first, second, and third world.

As far as the US being close to the least developed nations of the world--we're so damn far from those places...despite the fact that our infrastructure could use a boost in parts.

Thanks. I just didn't feel like going into all that.