Visiting San Francisco - disappointed (San Jose, Sacramento: to rent, condos, school)

[Radical347]

Originally Posted by dalparadise

Wow, you missed the point entirely.

Nope. I just don't view that particular point favorably.

[04kL4nD]

Originally Posted by tijlover

I've been on other forums, where this issue came up, why fewer Gay bars are to be found, in whatever city. And one of the reasons that pops up, continually, is the Internet as one factor.

Crackdown on DUI's has got to be another factor. How many times, when I used to go to bars, did I see some police car, towards closing, hanging around the vicinity just waiting to pounce on someone, or let's say, destroy someone's life!

The economy must be another factor, diminished incomes, job instability, and the high priced drinks!

I'm such a paranoiac when it comes to potentially getting a DUI, that crosses my mind anytime I want to go to, not only a Gay bar, but any bar. I started riding my bike to a neighborhood bar, only to learn from someone I met there he had gotten a DUI on his bicycle!

Also, if you scan Craigslist, men for men section, any number of people come to a city today, put an ad on Craigslist: I'm in town for a few days, looking for a hook-up, and? In many cases, you don't even need to leave your hotel room!

Why trek all the way over to the Castro area, and after a few drinks, you may or may not find someone to hook up with!!!! With Craigslist, for instance, it's a much more sure thing, if you trade photo's.

If you're looking for a hookup, the internet is a no-brainer. In fact, the odds of you getting laid in the Castro are probably lower than they should be. It's a bunch of neighborhood bars where everybody knows each other. If you're an exotic looking tourist, people might pounce all over you, but generally the Castro is a local hangout. Good luck getting a phone number if you live in the East Bay . But high priced drinks in the Castro? Clearly you need to get out more. Most bars have ridiculous happy hours that serve strong drinks almost every day of the week until like 8PM. Like I said earlier, if you're looking to get laid, you need to be hanging out in SOMA.

[dalparadise]

Originally Posted by Radical347

Nope. I just don't view that particular point favorably.

You sound like someone from the Peninsula or maybe the East Bay, who doesn't understand the City or the visceral connection that people from around the world have with San Francisco. Let me guess, you measure quality of life in commute times or number of bedrooms you can get on a moderate income?

Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but the Bay Area is only moderately good at providing it, whereas it is excellent at providing intensely urban, unique, personality-rich neighborhoods...at least in SF, for those with enough of an appreciation for urban environments to enjoy one of the great cities of the world.

[Radical347]

Originally Posted by dalparadise

You sound like someone from the Peninsula or maybe the East Bay, who doesn't understand the City or the visceral connection that people from around the world have with San Francisco. Let me guess, you measure quality of life in commute times or number of bedrooms you can get on a moderate income?

Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but the Bay Area is only moderately good at providing it, whereas it is excellent at providing intensely urban, unique, personality-rich neighborhoods...at least in SF, for those with enough of an appreciation for urban environments to enjoy one of the great cities of the world.

I'm not really sure what # of bedrooms or commute times has to do with anything here.

What I said before:

This is precisely one thing that turns me off about SF. Move to the city, pick the neighborhood that you want to most pigeonhole yourself into, and then start doing everything you can to act like you fit in.

And somehow, you infer that means that I don't appreciate urban environments. It's quite the opposite, actually. That's one of the problems with SF -- I don't think it feels like a true urban environment, and the sharp separation of neighborhoods contributes in no small part to that. People are defined by the X sq. block radius that they live in. People define others by that. Many people hardly ever leave their neighborhood unless they have to. A similar degree of provincial-ness exists in these neighborhoods in SF that I've seen in small towns. Also I've never lived anywhere before where the boundaries have felt so forced. (Yes, I did live in SF for a few years.)

SF is very walkable -- I like that, and I'll give it that. However I think it's a pain to get around, as cute little stretches can sometimes give way to a big, impersonal road, and you have to cross a few of each to get to your destination. The haphazard placement of these is obnoxious...either be cute and convenient, or be big. Public transit within SF is next to useless -- a big no no for urban environments. Also, a lot of the "unique" stuff I thought I'd find in SF when I moved up here (cool shops, farmers markets, concerts, and restaurants) I realized can be found elsewhere in Bay Area suburbia and sometimes in greater amounts. With the exception of the Financial District & the events they have around the Civic Center area, I think SF feels more like a collection of little midwestern villages pushed together than a big city.

[04kL4nD]

That's a really interesting opinion that I'm sure few people agree with.

[Radical347]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

That's a really interesting opinion that I'm sure few people agree with.

I've talked to a number of people who live/d there who have a similar opinion. Visitors don't notice it as much.

[bobby_guz_man]

Originally Posted by Radical347

I've talked to a number of people who live/d there who have a similar opinion. Visitors don't notice it as much.

Interestingly, my three coworkers, who work in SJ downtown with me and live in SF, were telling me the same thing.

What's more interesting is that two of them are natives, and one is a recent transplant. Yet they all felt the same way. The natives feel more strongly about it than the transplant do.

[dalparadise]

So, people who spend a great deal of their lives in San Jose and the East Bay don't like San Francisco because its not uniform across the City? What a strange observation and objection. I love the different personalities of the different neighborhoods so much.

I routinely am in The Mission, Haight, The Marina (gasp!) Cole Valley, Western Addition, Nob Hill and Russian Hill (where I live). I have friends who enjoy piling into my car and driving out to The Richmond or Sunset once a month or so for izakaya after work. My wife and I like spending time shopping, walking around, picnicking or having a glass of wine in Land's End, Pac Heights, Cow Hollow, North Beach, The Embarcadero, Union Square, etc. South of Market on a game day is like a street festival. I have friends in Hayes Valley, The Fillmore and the Duboce area whom I enjoy visiting and checking out their neighborhood...

The mention of the names of these neighborhoods to San Franciscans gives a distinct image of the place and its personality. Most people I know really like that. I love the fact that I can easily walk down the hill into vastly different environments, with different shops, restaurants and people, depending on which direction I choose. That, to me, is the epitome of city life.

Sameness across wide areas is the opposite of it.

[bobby_guz_man]

Originally Posted by dalparadise

So, people who spend a great deal of their lives in San Jose and the East Bay don't like San Francisco because its not uniform across the City? What a strange observation and objection. I love the different personalities of the different neighborhoods so much.

I routinely am in The Mission, Haight, The Marina (gasp!) Cole Valley, Western Addition, Nob Hill and Russian Hill (where I live). I have friends who enjoy piling into my car and driving out to The Richmond or Sunset once a month or so for izakaya after work. My wife and I like spending time shopping, walking around, picnicking or having a glass of wine in Land's End, Pac Heights, Cow Hollow, North Beach, The Embarcadero, Union Square, etc. South of Market on a game day is like a street festival. I have friends in Hayes Valley, The Fillmore and the Duboce area whom I enjoy visiting and checking out their neighborhood...

The mention of the names of these neighborhoods to San Franciscans gives a distinct image of the place and its personality. Most people I know really like that. I love the fact that I can easily walk down the hill into vastly different environments, with different shops, restaurants and people, depending on which direction I choose. That, to me, is the epitome of city life.

Sameness across wide areas is the opposite of it.

*Yawn* Most big cities have many distinct neighborhoods. San Francisco isn't the only one. Oakland and San Jose have many distinct neighborhoods as well.

Enjoy yours, we'll enjoy ours

[Radical347]

Originally Posted by dalparadise

So, people who spend a great deal of their lives in San Jose and the East Bay

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything either.

don't like San Francisco because its not uniform across the City?

That isn't it. What I don't like is the overemphasis on and forced-feeling boundaries of the neighborhoods. Furthermore, I think the neighborhoods have the setup and feel of small towns, each with a small main street. What I expect from a big city is more fluidity between areas, and bigger buildings across the city (not just downtown).

I routinely am in The Mission, Haight, The Marina (gasp!) Cole Valley, Western Addition, Nob Hill and Russian Hill (where I live). I have friends who enjoy piling into my car and driving out to The Richmond or Sunset once a month or so for izakaya after work. My wife and I like spending time shopping, walking around, picnicking or having a glass of wine in Land's End, Pac Heights, Cow Hollow, North Beach, The Embarcadero, Union Square, etc. South of Market on a game day is like a street festival. I have friends in Hayes Valley, The Fillmore and the Duboce area whom I enjoy visiting and checking out their neighborhood...

Replace The Mission, Haight, The Marina, Cole Valley, etc with Vallejo, Benicia, Fairfield, etc, and it would sound the same to me. Also, the comment about friends piling into your car and driving out to The Richmond, Sunset, etc once a month...that resembles someone from, say, small town Colorado saying something like "once a month my friends and I pile into my car and go to Denver."

Also:

The Marina (gasp!)

TOTALLY proves my point about people being judged/judging based on neighborhood alone. (And, to a lesser degree, so does "Russian Hill (where I live)" and "whom I enjoy visiting and checking out their neighborhood..."

However, I'll give you this one:

South of Market on a game day is like a street festival.

The mention of the names of these neighborhoods to San Franciscans gives a distinct image of the place and its personality. Most people I know really like that. I love the fact that I can easily walk down the hill into vastly different environments, with different shops, restaurants and people, depending on which direction I choose. That, to me, is the epitome of city life.

That's fair. But like Bobby said, having different shops, restaurants, people, etc is not unique to SF. When it comes to certain aspects, I've found more different types of restaurants/people in San Jose, the East Bay, even Sacramento. SF does have these too but it doesn't have a monopoly on diversity.

I do like that in SF it's easy to walk to other areas, but for me, that alone doesn't yell city life. (And you can't just walk down, or up, the hill to any area.) If I wanted to hop from main street to main street, I can do that in small town America -- it would just take a car. In fact, I grew up in a small town and was often bored, so I got in my car and went exploring the different towns within ~an hour radius (and even that makes it comparable, or in some cases faster, than Muni. ) While the distinction between the small towns in the area I grew up wasn't quite the same as in SF (there were towns similar to Mission St. and the Marina, although there obviously wasn't a town similar to the Castro -- but even then, as 04kL4nD has alluded to, the Castro even is full of neighborhood bars where everyone knows each other -- possibly because a lot of people there fled their small towns for SF) the setups and separations were similar.