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And Alaska one of the smallest in terms of population and it ranks in the Top 10. That Top 10 ranking is based on a PER CAPITA RATE like almost all crime stats, which takes into account size
Obviously... my point was that with so many people living in this state, and with us having a number of BIG cities, of course the overall crime will be worse. 'Tis the nature of things, unfortunately.
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I feel safer in San Diego than I do in the Bay Area and the stats back that up. And when some of the other places you've lived are STOCKTON then of course the Bay Area will feel safer comparatively.
Touche. But I only lived in Stockton for three years... I was born just outside of Washington D.C. (talk about crime!), and have lived in the Bay Area, Lake Tahoe, Oregon, and a brief stint in Philadelphia. I've also traveled extensively around the world & US, so I'm not speaking from a lack of experience.
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I'm referring to the attitude about the Bay Area being so far ahead of other places socially when its not, it still has all the same social problems as elsewhere, which is what my point is. Basically some people don't have a reason to be as smug as they are sometimes with regards to that.
If you think the Bay Area doesn't rank high for murder and burglary then look at the stats. But if you don't want to look at the stats then look at what is happening on the streets of the East Bay with all the high profile robberies in good neighborhoods or 3 innocent members of a family being murdered for no good reason thanks to SF's "sanctuary" policy.
I don't think anyone is arguing that we have crime... doesn't every city in the world?? And I can't speak for anyone else here, but I've never personally claimed we are "better than anyone," or don't have social problems. Wish I could make that claim, but I cannot. And as I mentioned earlier, I work in both downtown Richmond and Oakland, so I see what happens on the East Bay streets every day - and while it's not exactly SAFE, I also don't feel my life is in danger. Nobody has bothered me yet, knock on wood!
Not for me, I've had the opposite experiance getting mean stare downs from little thugs in the Bay Area more so than down here, which happened to me over this past Thanksgiving holiday as I was leaving Oakland late at night; some little thug in the car next to me staring hard at me for no good reason, I was afraid the guy was going to shoot me if I stared back b/c only bad things seem to happen in Oakland after midnight.
Maybe you were just being paranoid, or he thought you were attractive? I drive through Oakland & Richmond every day, and people stare at stop-lights sometimes - just as they do in any other town. One time a cabbie was staring me down, so I looked back and he winked & tried to get me to talk to him... I did roll down my window only to ask for directions (I was a bit lost near Lake Merritt), and he got all excited until I started to ask where Lakeshore was. LOL!
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I find the thug/ghetto mentality worse in the Bay Area than San Diego, not only from the way people dress but from my own experiences dealing with that type of trash there.
Also you may like to group SoCal as one but San Diego and LA/OC/IE are two different worlds.
Of course, as they are different cities over an hour from each other. My brother, whom you were rudely speaking with earlier (leftydan6) lives in San Diego, and I visit him occasionally... it's a very nice town, but I don't think it's free from crime or social issues. Safer than San Francisco and LA? Probably. However, there is no justification for being "smug" about SD's lack of crime either.
Of course, as they are different cities over an hour from each other. My brother, whom you were rudely speaking with earlier (leftydan6) lives in San Diego, and I visit him occasionally... it's a very nice town, but I don't think it's free from crime or social issues. Safer than San Francisco and LA? Probably. However, there is no justification for being "smug" about SD's lack of crime either.
Maybe if your brother paid attention to who was saying what and who he is quoting and not accusing me of saying something I didn't then I wouldn't have to snap back at him. I just didn't appreciate him coming after me accusing me of saying something that I did not.
I wasn't being smug at all, I just mentioned SD's low crime rate to show how it doesn't really matter how liberal or conservative cities are when it comes to their crime rates overall, which your brother was trying to make some argument that it does.
I wasn't being smug at all, I just mentioned SD's low crime rate to show how it doesn't really matter how liberal or conservative cities are when it comes to their crime rates overall, which your brother was trying to make some argument that it does.
I happen to agree with him, and not just because we are related. That doesn't mean being a liberal vs. conservative city is ALL the cause, but it does play a role... and San Diego is a weird example to use, since they are very polarized in their beliefs (some ultra liberal, some ultra conservative, many moderates).
Last edited by gizmo980; 12-12-2008 at 03:48 AM..
Reason: Cutting personal chat
I happen to agree with him, and not just because we are related. That doesn't mean being a liberal vs. conservative city is ALL the cause, but it does play a role... and San Diego is a weird example to use, since they are very polarized in their beliefs (some ultra liberal, some ultra conservative, many moderates).
You can believe that but what proof is there of that?? Yes in THEORY it seems like liberal policies would reduce crime but in REALITY that is not the case. Honestly your brother just seems to be buying into everything his professor feeds them with regards to this subject, its the same thing I did in college when I thought socialism was a good idea.
You have some conservative cities with low crime rates, some with high crime rates. And the same thing goes with liberal cities too. Also liberal cities dominate the most dangerous city lists so I don't know why or how you can make some argument that in general they will be safer.
When you look at metropolitan area crime stats rather than just city limit crime stats, it shows both a mix of liberal and conservative areas being some of the safest and some of the most dangerous.
Even having a lot of poverty and minorities doesn't automatically equate to a high crime rate, El Paso and Fresno are two examples of that. Also I think SD is a good example to use since it has a more diverse range of ideology, values, thoughts, etc...than the Bay Area. It's not such a one sided city when it comes to politics unlike CA's other major cities like SF, SJ, LA, etc... I could make an anecdotal argument that the middle of the road politically is the way to go since SD has such a low crime rate, but I don't really believe that.
I know all the reasons people believe liberal policies are better for crime but I don't see any REAL WORLD evidence of that really, if there is please show me. If what you say is true then liberal cities would have lower crime rates than conservative ones, but they don't.
I think people get a little too caught up in their own ideology and it blinds them to see that neither one is right when it comes to this subject, among others, at least according to what occurs in the real world. But they convince themselves they are right by cherry picking examples or data that support their assertion. Like how your brother kept trying to use San Jose as an example of liberal policies leading to a lower crime rate at the same time ignoring all the other liberal cities that have high crime rates like Detroit or San Francisco, Boston, etc.. as well as ignoring the conservative cities with low crime rates.
You can believe that but what proof is there of that?? Yes in THEORY it seems like liberal policies would reduce crime but in REALITY that is not the case. Honestly your brother just seems to be buying into everything his professor feeds them with regards to this subject, its the same thing I did in college when I thought socialism was a good idea.
Trust me, he has a mind of his own, or we'd agree on more political issues (and he'd vote Democrat, hehe)... in fact he usually disagreed with his professors, which I always told him was a bad idea! And yes, I realize that political persuasion doesn't automatically affect crime, as I thought I'd stated clearly in my last post. But when you look at it objectively, certain social/political beliefs WILL inevitably affect the crime rates - and what crimes are actually committed. I don't have any proof since I haven't researched it, these are just my personal opinions & observations.
For the record though, did I even say whether I thought liberal or conservative meant lower crime? I have only spoken generally, and never specified which way I felt... you are assuming things. I basically feel that it has more affect on WHAT crimes are committed - for example, I think drug crimes are higher in liberal areas, but theft and assault are higher in conservative. Just off the top of my head, before you go throwing stats at me.
But when you look at it objectively, certain social/political beliefs WILL inevitably affect the crime rates - and what crimes are actually committed. I don't have any proof since I haven't researched it, these are just my personal opinions & observations.[/quote]I see what you mean but I don't see either ideology having an advantage overall there. Both liberals and conservatives have beliefs/policies that contribute negatively to crime IMO. The same types of crimes occur everywhere and some areas just have more crime than others but those areas are both liberal and conservative. I think areas with high crime are like that b/c of certain unique, local circumstances and history rather than what type of social/political beliefs define the area.
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Originally Posted by gizmo980
For the record though, did I even say whether I thought liberal or conservative meant lower crime? I have only spoken generally, and never specified which way I felt... you are assuming things. I basically feel that it has more affect on WHAT crimes are committed - for example, I think drug crimes are higher in liberal areas, but theft and assault are higher in conservative. Just off the top of my head, before you go throwing stats at me.
Well you did say you agreed with your brother that being in a liberal or conservative area makes a difference in crime rates. Since he was claiming that San Jose's low crime rate was b/c of its liberal policies/beliefs so I did assume that's what you thought as well, but for good reason I think.
But it would be interesting to see if certain types of crimes are higher in certain types of areas like what you said.
I see what you mean but I don't see either ideology having an advantage overall there. Both liberals and conservatives have beliefs/policies that contribute negatively to crime IMO. The same types of crimes occur everywhere and some areas just have more crime than others but those areas are both liberal and conservative. I think areas with high crime are like that b/c of certain unique, local circumstances and history rather than what type of social/political beliefs define the area.
Well you did say you agreed with your brother that being in a liberal or conservative area makes a difference in crime rates. Since he was claiming that San Jose's low crime rate was b/c of its liberal policies/beliefs so I did assume that's what you thought as well, but for good reason I think.
But it would be interesting to see if certain types of crimes are higher in certain types of areas like what you said.
Yes, that would be interesting - might be a good research project for me, LOL.
So what? San Diego isn't as liberal and has a crime rate just as low. Some of the safest cities in America are also some of the most conservative as well.
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Again what is your point with the "liberal" cities thing?? It doesn't make a city any safer or any more dangerous from what I can tell. Detroit has been ranked as the most liberal city in America and look at its crime rate.
The liberal city of Irvine is the second safest in California, while the conservative city of San Bernardino is the fourth most dangerous.
San Francisco couldn't be worse than Los Angeles, so something is wrong with that one. I have been to San Francisco, I havn't seen any crime.
The high crime rates in these bay area cities are largely petty such as smoking marijuana. Violent crime is far more severe in southern California.
Criminal activity that happens in the Mission, Tenderloin, and Bayview I wouldn't consider to be petty. So. Cal has improved a lot on the crime it use to be known for. Why do people who visit downtown Oakland, the nice areas of SanFran, or the Lake Merrit commenting on how safe they feel as if they have been to the real rough spots& troubeling spots of the Bay? When you get into the real sections of Richmond not only will one feel instantly depressed but you wonder if you are still in California. I wish I could say that I felt comfortable for my kids to just go outside and play by themselves in the Bay but that is just NOT the case.
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But I only lived in Stockton for three years... I was born just outside of Washington D.C. (talk about crime!), and have lived in the Bay Area, Lake Tahoe, Oregon, and a brief stint in Philadelphia. I've also traveled extensively around the world & US, so I'm not speaking from a lack of experience.
I basically feel that it has more affect on WHAT crimes are committed - for example, I think drug crimes are higher in liberal areas, but theft and assault are higher in conservative. Just off the top of my head, before you go throwing stats at me. 
