Why can't they just fire all the BART workers and hire new ones? (house, construction)

[Bisaro TMF]

while i think the strikes are BS a lot of you sound jealous of Bart workers and are upset with your own pay and place in life.

[MadisonR]

Originally Posted by MrWillys

The argument against public service employees is flawed. To somehow think their not subject to poor management is incorrect. I know that the most important thing to a teacher is due process in case of a claim against them. Today's world have people that would claim almost anything for a lawsuit settlement. Just ask the football player who did 5 years on a false claim of rape. Individuals in public service deserve unions just as much as anyone else. If it was just easier to fire the teacher (could be a popular great one) than to deal with these nuisance claims is that the right thing for us all? I'm a retired Carpenter from the bay area, and we make a good living if you're good enough to stay busy year round.

Fine, you want public employee unions? Then the following facts would have to be put in place:

- public union employees can no longer vote in city/state/federal elections, nor can they, their families nor their unions make campaign contributions nor work or advocate in any way on behalf of any politician, political party, etc.

- public unions cannot strike; they are automatically replaced if they do

- multiple bids are to be put out for each project/function, including the use of non-public employee unions to obtain the lowest possible cost

- an advocate representing the taxpayer is to be present at all negotiations involving contracts with public employee unions

- all public employee pensions are to be immediately replaced with 401(k) plans

As for your ludicrous claim there is "no argument" against public unions, actually there is no argument for them. The vast majority of the federal workforce is not unionized, and has never been, and with civil service rules in place people worked for cities/states for over a century before public unions were even considered.

[MadisonR]

Originally Posted by Bisaro TMF

while i think the strikes are BS a lot of you sound jealous of Bart workers and are upset with your own pay and place in life.

Actually, what I'm upset about is as a taxpayer having to overpay so heavily for unskilled labor - when lower, more rational salaries more in alignment with their skills could and should be paid, freeing up revenue for real needs, like better roads and bridges, better school supplies, pre-k classes for the poor, more drug rehab programs, libraries, etc.

The taxpayers are clearly not getting their money's worth from their tax dollars, unless you consider second homes for public union employees and bought-and-paid for votes for their favored politicians as acquiring "value".

[zombocom]

[quote=MadisonR;31942152]

Originally Posted by MadisonR

Actually, what I'm upset about is as a taxpayer having to overpay so heavily for unskilled labor - when lower, more rational salaries more in alignment with their skills could and should be paid, freeing up revenue for real needs, like better roads and bridges, better school supplies, pre-k classes for the poor, more drug rehab programs, libraries, etc.

The taxpayers are clearly not getting their money's worth from their tax dollars, unless you consider second homes for public union employees and bought-and-paid for votes for their favored politicians as acquiring "value".

The only public employees I know with second homes are judges and college professors... A few cops too.

[MadisonR]

Originally Posted by zombocom

The only public employees I know with second homes are judges and college professors... A few cops too.

Go visit the Rockaways, you have thousands of second homes owned by cops, teachers, office workers, DMV, etc. Lots of public workers have them there.

[zombocom]

Originally Posted by MadisonR

Go visit the Rockaways, you have thousands of second homes owned by cops, teachers, office workers, DMV, etc. Lots of public workers have them there.

Is this thread about New York?

Since it is not, why are you persisting in making this off-topic, deflective nonsense comment?

[MadisonR]

Originally Posted by zombocom

Is this thread about New York? Since it is not, why are you persisting in making this off-topic, deflective nonsense comment?

When you want to re-join the adult conversation, and stop trolling let us know. Because I am not going to do the research for you that you were begging me to, is not sufficient for you to start trolling.

As for everyone else, I mentioned the Rockaways because yes, I live here and know the area. Since public employees are also extremely highly compensated in CA, I'd imagine that there are plenty of teachers, firemen, cops, and other civil servants with second homes in CA, and elsewhere. Not too great a stretch of imagination, one would think

[zombocom]

Originally Posted by MadisonR

When you want to re-join the adult conversation, and stop trolling let us know. Because I am not going to do the research for you that you were begging me to, is not sufficient for you to start trolling.

As for everyone else, I mentioned the Rockaways because yes, I live here and know the area. Since public employees are also extremely highly compensated in CA, I'd imagine that there are plenty of teachers, firemen, cops, and other civil servants with second homes in CA, and elsewhere. Not too great a stretch of imagination, one would think

I'm not begging you to do anything, I'm asking you to substantiate your allegations - which you can't, so you try to deflect.

Sure it is a stretch of the imagination. Average home price in Santa Clara county is 743,000 dollars. Here you are saying that BART employees making 65,000 bucks a year are buying second homes.

So far, in a thread about a California transit agency, you've manage to tell us about second homes for teachers in New York, and quote us a generalized mission statement for the New York Civil Service.

Wow. Thank you for your awesome and totally relevant contributions to this conversation.

[Fran66]

Originally Posted by countofmc

Obviously not a labor lawyer. Is there some kind of law against this?

Does it take a very long time to train a train operator?

I know the short-term pain would be tremendous but the workers are threatening a strike anyways. Why not just fire everyone, rehire a select willing talented few at generous salaries, train a new generation of workers, and basically start over?

The Bay Area will have to put up with massive traffic for several months, but it will be short-term pain to put BART on a sustainable path.

You're just wrong.

All they want is a livable wage. (Like all of us in this country. Which at least half of us are not getting in this country.)

Plus, it takes YEARS to train a BART employee. What you can't 'train' in a very short period of time is experience. What you're suggesting would be dangerous for BART riders. And, come to think of it, for the employees.

If you were smart enough to get a BART position -- literally -- or you weren't smart to go after one, don't fault those who did.

You know, if it weren't for unions, we'd all still be working 12-hours a day, 6 days a week. With no vacations, no holidays and no medical benefits. As it is, our employers -- and the government -- are taking everything it possibly can away from us. Why? Because unions are rapidly disintegrating.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by Bisaro TMF

while i think the strikes are BS a lot of you sound jealous of Bart workers and are upset with your own pay and place in life.

well that isn't me, but do you blame people for feeling that way? I certainly don't.