My thoughts on San Francisco (you wont like it) (Oakland: condos, homes)

[NorCal Dude]

You can see everything oakland has to offer in a weekend. Sf? Could take months or years.

[mini_cute]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

Compared to SF? No, Oakland isn't an international traveler's destination. It doesn't have Fisherman's Wharf, the Golden Gate bridge, GG park, the Ferry Building, Lombard St, etc. It has half the population and a fraction of SF's wealth and influence. It's still a fantastic medium sized US city that has a lot more scenic beauty than cities of comparable size.

Is it worth a half a day or a evening to explore Lake Merritt, hike the red wood forests, catch a show at the Fox theater, or grab a beer at the Trappist? Absolutely. And just so you know, LOTS of people end up really liking Oakland when they check it out, some even prefer it enough to live here instead of SF. In case you haven't noticed, people are moving out of SF and into Oakland because of all it has to offer. Would I tell international travelers who were planning on visiting SF for a week to skip it instead of Oakland? Of course not. Nor would I tell them to reroute to San Jose, Sacramento or Long Beach either.

And who here has denied the crime problem? I certainly haven't. There are several parts of Oakland I actively avoid, simply because I have no good reason to go there. That doesn't make the entire city dangerous, blue collar, and gritty like your other post suggested.

I for one am one of those who has chosen to live in Oakland as a first choice. It wasn't because we were priced out of SF. It was because we wanted an urban lifestyle but couldn't find a place to live in SF that we were satisfied with, regardless of how large of a housing budget we had. I just found living in SF to be too uncomfortable and gross. It does have beautiful scenery around it though and nice touristy spots. But I can experience them when I visit. I don't have to live there for that. But also, it has become so tourist-oriented, the local culture doesn't seem as authentic to me. But to each their own.

I've been in Oakland for almost 3 months now. Many people would probably have a hard time believing it when I say that my life is already more rich here than it used to be the whole time when living in SF. When I say rich, I mean full of meaningful experiences and things that I truly enjoy. The good things about Oakland are so... refreshing and charming.

I like urban living but I don't really like the big city NYC lifestyle. I don't like suburban living either. What I found is that I love the European lifestyle. It is a blend of moderate to high density but with a higher quality of life and slower pace. So far, Oakland in the Grand Lake/Lakeshore/Adams Point/Lake Merritt area is the closest thing I have found to European style living in the US. Even though the infrastructure is better maintained and even more beautiful in Europe, but Oakland has ethnic diversity which many parts of Europe lack. If we weren't able to find a place we could live besides SF, we were going to try moving to Europe. But now that we found Oakland, we don't feel we need to, at least at this point in time.

I was like other people before in thinking Oakland was ghetto and didn't have anything really going for it. I thought all the hype was just a bunch of people who got priced out of SF trying to make themselves feel better. At the end of last year, I found out that I was wrong.

Crime is still a problem in Oakland. But at this point, Oakland has so much going for it and there is this belief that Oakland will keep changing for the better, that it doesn't matter.

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by NorCal Dude

You can see everything oakland has to offer in a weekend. Sf? Could take months or years.

As a tourist, more or less. As a resident, hell no.

[bmw335xi]

I never bother getting into debates about someone's opinions because what is the point. There is no right or wrong answer, it's an opinion. However, I can say I'm surprised the OP enjoyed Oakland more as a tourist. I can understand why a resident might enjoy Oakland more, but a tourist I find it very surprising. A resident will find more affordable housing and larger housing, it's pretty clear to me why some people prefer it over SF, but a tourist.... surprising.

[NorCal Dude]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

As a tourist, more or less. As a resident, hell no.

At least you admit it, in your own way. And for the record I'm not big on the vanilla part of the bay. We hang, live, work east of the bay.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by NorCal Dude

You can see everything oakland has to offer in a weekend. Sf? Could take months or years.

Agreed.

[Yankeemama]

Originally Posted by david_p

Do not read this if you don't want to hear a guy talk about how bad sf is and awesome oakland is.


I was really looking forward to checking out sf on my Californian leg of my holiday.
I've always been interested in san francisco. I've heard many folk say the city is the Melbourne of America.


How wrong I was.

Let me just start from the beginning.

I tried to book somewhere to stay. Airbnb is always my first preference before I start looking for hotels. After 3 months (literally 3 months..) of surfing the web trying to find somewhere I'd realized san fran is over the top/ridiculously expensive to lay your head down. I could not find one place for under $100 per night to stay at. So the next alternative was the dreaded Oakland. I booked an oakland apartment for around $85.

Cut a long story short I got to San francisco. First thing i see is Homeless people everywhere. And I mean everywhere. Wannabee thugs loitering infront of shops on market street. I even walked past a door way that had human feces inside it. For a city so tech savvy it was ridiculous to see the amount of homeless people wandering around the city. And I know san francisco is probably trying to curb the problem and that many flock to california because of the weather. But wow. ugly stuff. Later in the day i get to oakland expecting worse. Was I pleasantly surprised. I'd never heard of Lake Merritt until I stepped foot into oakland. People from all walks of life running/walking around the lake or walking their dogs. Or just chatting away with their friends on the grass. I enjoyed the bars and restaurants in oakland, whole foods which was a 5 minute walk from me, And the not fake geeks that were from across the bridge. And most of all:

I FELT SAFE!
A HELL OF A LOT MORE SAFER THAN I DID IN SAN FRANCISCO???
CRAZY YOU THINK? I THINK NOT!
The only thing that did happen was a teenager asked if wanted to buy some weed off him.I said no thank you and he just walked away politely. No big deal.


for the whole week i spent in the bay area, I realized San Francisco doesn't offer much at all and Oakland is beautiful.

Oh and by the way, I viewed the golden gate bridge from a beach that was actually a nudist beach. Wasn't a nice surprise. And the painted ladies were just some boring houses (why did i think they were going to blow my socks off?? WHY?)

cliffs:
wanted to stay in sf for a week
ended up staying in oakland though scared of gangs
ended up loving oakland and hating san fran.
im bored and have nothing else to do on the internet

Native San Franciscan here. We NEVER call S.F., San Fran, so straight off I can tell you were the problem while staying in S.F. I was born in the mid 60's in S.F., grew up in the 70's and 80's. I left in the mid 90's. How I wish SO MANY people from all over the world didn't fall in love with my hometown. It would be a lot less expensive than it is. I am wondering why you felt the need to write on this forum about all of the negatives of my hometown. I am thinking you got your heart broken by a beautiful CA woman and now you are sour grapes. I am glad you liked Oakland as it is a vital part of the Bay Area.

[wooliemonster]

Oakland has little to offer tourists. It doesn't have the infrastructure of overpriced substandard restaurants, crappy tchotchke shops, tour busses, conventions that draw 100+k middle managers, etc. That stuff can take decades and billions of dollars in government subsidy to develop.

Oakland just has 400,000 people trying to make a life, build their communities, deal with some serious and somewhat intractable administrative and crime problems, and secretly hoard the best weather in the continental United States.

[pch1013]

Originally Posted by david_p

ridiculous scooters san franciscans ride around thinking theyre hip.

Actually, a scooter is a very practical -- perhaps the most practical -- way to get around The City, particularly since our public transport leaves so much to be desired. Because it's legal to ride between lanes of traffic, scooters and motorcycles can get through traffic quickly. Parking is a breeze anywhere you go, and thanks to its engine, a scooter has the run of the entire city, including the hills where bicycles fear to tread.

I myself ride a motorcycle (a real one) all over SF, and I've thought about getting a scooter, since shifting at every single stop sign gets really tiresome, not to mention the wear and tear on the clutch and my clutch hand.

And for every hipster poser on an overpriced Vespa or two-stroke Seventies moped, there are at least half a dozen normal people on cheap Taiwanese knockoffs enjoying their ability to get around SF faster and more cheaply than almost anyone else.

[bentobox34]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

Too bad it's not just the wealthy parts of Oakland that are nice. I guess you're forgetting Lake Merritt, Piedmont Ave, Rockridge, Temescal, Jack London Square, Uptown, etc- all of which are pretty solidly middle class areas. I'd venture to say that maybe 1/3 of Oakland is really rough (Ghost town, Deep East Oakland), while another 1/3 being hit or miss, while 1/3 is super nice. Honestly, it sounds like you don't know squat about Oakland and you hung out in rough areas.

Not really. Last time I checked a 2 bed, 2 bath home in any of those neighborhoods would run $600k and up. That's not "middle class" by any stretch of the imagination. That's 8x the median household income of the Bay Area of $75k.

Then again, this is not a problem limited to Oakland. The Bay Area as a whole has an extreme shortage of nice middle class neighborhoods.