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Old 02-03-2014, 01:33 PM
 
142 posts, read 198,919 times
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The problem with the "tech workers" in the bay is:

1. I have honestly lived more comfortably making $15/hr, 30 hours a week in another city, in a nice, safe area, than I did in San Francisco making $6500/month. I can understand why people who are not tech workers "dislike" the driving up in price that is occurring. Don't worry though, the whole app /online movement is a bubble, so the prices are probably going to come down.
2. They work so much that although they have a ton of money, they don't generally have enough time to actually to spend it. I'd rather work making $15 an hour in the bay sometimes because at least then I have time to live.

I kind of prefer to live more....poor, but have a lot of free time (as a tech worker), if that makes sense. Further, usually "have nots" are far far more interesting to talk to than a lot of the "techies" I've met in the bay area.
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Old 02-03-2014, 04:54 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 2,093,099 times
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mod cutIt should be obvious that there are growing pains in this region; the booming economy is creating real challenges for lots of people whose incomes have not kept up with the rising price of housing. This is a negative consequence resulting from the growth, and it needs policy-based solutions.

To the OP, don't act or think like these posters--that way lies ruin. With that said, you are unlikely to face any significant "techie-hate" if you move to SF. Many tech workers live here and enjoy it; some socialize mostly with their industry peers, but that is not true for everyone.

There is a saying that the tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut; tech workers are just the most expensive labor . . .

Last edited by Sam I Am; 02-07-2014 at 04:47 PM.. Reason: orphaned - the post you refer to has been deleted
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:34 AM
 
142 posts, read 198,919 times
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Quote:
Yep, another bubble, making worthless web and smartphone crap.
Will burst like the first one with losers and some winners flying off with bags of money. Agreed with your other points.
Unfortunately, its my industry at the moment (making websites is like art + programming mixed together...at least for me), so I've been observing how the market has been acting. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but it looks bad. I agree that most of it is useless crap, but its really easy money (especially in comparison to actually having to engineer things...)
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:12 AM
 
367 posts, read 322,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalforever View Post
Unfortunately, its my industry at the moment (making websites is like art + programming mixed together...at least for me), so I've been observing how the market has been acting. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but it looks bad. I agree that most of it is useless crap, but its really easy money (especially in comparison to actually having to engineer things...)
Got to do what you got to do to stay afloat, even if it means coding up some crap whatever pays.
Building pyramids for the Pharaohs .
In general, there's not much favor for "engineering" things in the US anymore...
There's no reason to hate techies...many are just trying to survive, pay off their loans, etc. (ah, the mental images from the "dot com collapse")
The whole place (US) reminds of banana republic more and more...if you can't cut it in your "profession" you'll be sent to the "untouchables caste" of minimum wage slavery or on welfare. It's not the techies who're the culprit, it's the system that leaves people out in the cold and the travesty that fails to recognize that all the $10/hour workers--whose work is as important as coding things up-- can NOT meet the basic living standards in Bay area. All this is below "humanity" threshold. It's not the market that worries me the worst but the question if this country can continue on a path of "civilized living".

Last edited by Usrname; 02-05-2014 at 01:29 AM..
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:23 PM
 
142 posts, read 198,919 times
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Originally Posted by Usrname View Post
Got to do what you got to do to stay afloat, even if it means coding up some crap whatever pays.
Building pyramids for the Pharaohs .
In general, there's not much favor for "engineering" things in the US anymore...
There's no reason to hate techies...many are just trying to survive, pay off their loans, etc. (ah, the mental images from the "dot com collapse")
The whole place (US) reminds of banana republic more and more...if you can't cut it in your "profession" you'll be sent to the "untouchables caste" of minimum wage slavery or on welfare. It's not the techies who're the culprit, it's the system that leaves people out in the cold and the travesty that fails to recognize that all the $10/hour workers--whose work is as important as coding things up-- can NOT meet the basic living standards in Bay area. All this is below "humanity" threshold. It's not the market that worries me the worst but the question if this country can continue on a path of "civilized living".
It all makes sense when you realize that everything is motivated by money. For example, a janitor has an important job. He/she must make sure everything is clean in the work environment, and is absolutely required. However, the business owner sees the janitor as an expense he/she wishes to do away with. In contrast, the engineer might be programming some stupid app that doesnt matter, but all the business owner sees is that this programmer is making him/her tons of money . This influences the wages of course.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:31 PM
 
14 posts, read 18,029 times
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Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Most people don't hate techies, in fact, the majority of people I meet in bars, events work in tech. I live in San Francisco if that helps. most of my friends work in SV and live in San Francisco.

It sounds most of your friends ARE techies, so it stands to reason that you don't hear a lot of anti-techie talk. I think you'll find that among working-class, long-term residents of SF, as well as young creative types who are not involved in tech, there is a bit more animosity, mostly due to a perception--warranted or not--that tech people are pushing poorer residents out of the city and generally driving up the cost of living.

Personally, I don't think it's fair to judge people based solely on their profession, and an influx of money and jobs into a city certainly isn't a bad thing. But it's undeniable that rents have skyrocketed since the beginning of the current tech boom, and it's a bit disturbing to see the city giving such lavish tax incentives to these companies without really examining the long-term effects of the boom. There also seems to be a certain libertarian undercurrent to many of the young tech people, and a lack of any real interest in the history of San Francisco. I don't get the feeling that many of them are really here to invest in the city or try to make it a better place for the future, because in all likelihood they'll be out and on to the next thing once the bubble bursts.
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:17 AM
 
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
9,197 posts, read 14,971,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Not all "techies" like fancy cocktails. That is obviously generalizing, but most have enough disposable income to get nice stuff/live the good life/not interact with people that are "have nots."
Might even be going out of their way to avoid the "little people", which does not serve to endear the newcomers to the established residents.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
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Anytime you have a group of people who are significantly changing the landscape of an area, you're going to hear backlash. Especially if those people are increasing the cost of living for everyone else.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:34 AM
 
2,147 posts, read 4,598,843 times
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Originally Posted by clongirl View Post
Nothing wrong with people in the tech industry (and it's huge and varied). I'm also married to one. I'm also from San Francisco but was "priced out" many years ago before this past wave of huge hiring sprees.

My main problem with "techies" (I hate that term since it's just so generalized) is that the vibe and culture of the City has changed because for some reason the only people you see nowadays are twenty somethings that make very good money for their age/lack of experience. It's like families, locals, and anyone over 35 just don't exist in the City anymore. It's sad, but blaming a specific industry isn't the right thing to do either. Job growth and a healthy economy are good things.

Anyone that "hates" the tech industry probably is using their laptop/cell phone right now to express themselves! It's just the way it is and it's silly to block Google buses. Those people are most likely transplants also.

On a positive note, I'm in the East Bay now and it's great and handy for me to get over to Oakland and Berkeley for great food and entertainment. What may be bad for San Francisco in terms of culture and cost are all making Oakland a whole lot more attractive to more varied groups of people.
Exactly! We lived in SFO during the initial dot com wave -late '90's. We didn't even know that my spouse was 'in the mix'-lol. He got a job offer b/c he had a desired skill set and we felt pretty lucky to be able to live in SFO for a couple of years. Now, people we know who weathered the 'dot com crash', or those who never had to b/c they had a certain skill set or had a start up, etc.=many of these folks have grown into fairly insufferable, pretentious and condescending jerks [though some of them already were like this]. I think those attitudes are what people hate-not the fact that someone works in tech.

I know people who grew up in SFO in the 50's and 60's [when the mission district was irish catholic]; many were priced out for the most part, long before the current wave of techies. Anyway, SFO is a small geographic area that is highly desirable. Larger metros around the world-paris, london, NYC, have more land to work with, to have different income brackets.

I think we are also seeing a phenomena in the bay area where, until recently, people expected that you could 'make the big bucks' and own a home somewhere in the bay area proper, and live the dream-the best of both worlds. Think about the world class metro areas: Most people do not expect to move to them and buy a home; they expect to pay an exorbitant amount for a very small apt. It's the trade off. Unfortunately, SFO/bay area is now transforming into one of these. I do not think this is the sole fault of techies, that's for sure. Plenty of non tech money in the area, as well. It's no one's fault; it's just the course of development.

Anyway, re techies: I never understand that SV mindset-that they are somehow more advanced or better than others...I'm like 'hey, sport, without end users for whatever service or tool you provide, you don't have a job'. Honestly, it's not rocket science [okay, the tech part may be], but the fact that it's an ecosystem and higher paying jobs like that only exist b/c the larger community/consumer base needs those services seems to elude many 'techies'.

Then again, techies are not the only field to succumb to this erroneous and ill-fated mindset: Medicine, Academia, etc...all need to get a clue b/c no field operates and excels within a vacuum. Yet, I guess the human ego is so fragile and insecure, that we will always have blowhards who need to feel superior to other people b/c they know how to operate or perform something that happens to pay a lot of money.

If a tree falls in the woods, and no one is there, does it still make a sound?
Exactly.
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:10 PM
 
9,965 posts, read 15,619,332 times
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Do people really hate "techies"(whatever that means, the tech industry is a pretty broad category), OR do people just hate an influx of new money and residents with new money(and possibly a different attitude) moving in?

I grew up on the margins of Silicon Valley, just "over-the-hill" in Santa Cruz. My dad worked in the semiconductor industry for over thirty years since the mid-70s. My mom was an accountant, but worked for a ton of different companies and later became a database administrator with Oracle and Seagate. In Santa Cruz though the rallying cry against out-of-towners or transplants by the surf hick crowd(many of my good friends) changed from "those damn valleys"(who supposedly overcrowded our beaches all summer from childhood on) to "stupid f-ing dotcommers" around 1998 or 99.

I left the area around this time, but every time I came back, I'd hear a non-stop tirade from a lot of locals about the "godamn dotcommers" that ruined everything from housing prices to surf breaks. Truth was, there was a boom in the economy of the region in that period that shot housing prices up, but I'm not even sure how many wealthier newcomers were stictly working for the early web companies. It didn't matter though, the mythical "dotcommer" was hated, and didn't understand the nature of the town and how the earn respect in the surfing lineup and so on.

I think in a way what's going on in San Francisco is sort of the same thing. People don't trust a lot of these newcomers, they have too much money, don't seem to have a connecetion yet to where they're moving, they're young and a little smug. I see the same thing in Seattle on a different level--the South Lake Union neighborhood is full of Amazon.com workers that it just seems like a giant campus for the firm--and a lot of them come off as awkward. I think part of it though is that for years while San Francisco was being gentrified over a long period, and there was plenty of influxes of countercultural types or yuppies or whatever gentryfing various neighborhoods--though at the same time, those groups sort of stuck to their parts of town and while often transient had some connection to San Francisco after people settled in. The fear today though seems to be that the new generation of people with money flocking to the City are just going to turn it into a more scenic Silicon Valley with better restaurants and older buildings.
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