San Francisco, Oakland Among America's Most Unequal Big Cities (Alameda: wages, taxes)

[ExeterMedia]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

Can anyone cite a valid source that demonstrates the hospital industry has overtaken the tourism industry in SF? thanks

From the article I posted.

San Francisco hospitals inject $15.3 billion a year into the economy, account for nearly 99,000 jobs or about 18 percent of the city's workforce, making the industry one of the healthiest in the city's economy, according to a report released today.

Tourism and hospitality is considered the city's largest industry for the number of direct and indirect jobs they generate, but the report makes the case that more spending comes from San Francisco's vigorous medical industry. Not only do hospitals spend money on wages, benefits and supplies, the employees and companies they pay also support the local economy.

"Tourism, which is very important, causes $8.5 billion in spending in the city annually. Health care causes almost twice as much," said Ron Smith, senior vice president for the hospital council.

[04kL4nD]

Ah, so you're personally redefining what 'largest' means to fit your ill-conceived argument. I thought you had actual numbers/data to back up your claim from the BLS. Looks like you don't

[ExeterMedia]

I'm only presenting the facts as stated by the report. The hospitals industry has the largest economic impact on the local SF economy, much more so than tourism, or tech.

I'm not sure what is ill-conceived about that argument since it is a fact.

Giving homeless people Rx pills happens to exacerbate the income inequality question of this thread. Oakland has the same problem as well (admittedly on a smaller scale).
Huge increase of mentally ill homeless in Alameda County - ContraCostaTimes.com

[HappyinCali]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

Can anyone cite a valid source that demonstrates the hospital industry has overtaken the tourism industry in SF? thanks

I never made the claim, so I have no dog in this fight. I was responding to silverkris's specific question about homeless' healthcare as % of costs.

But here is an attempt, on what metric? Taxes paid? Because many hospitals are non-profit. Money spent on them? People employed? Money spent by employees? Wages generated by the industry? Please be specific, as to what metric you would like addressed and what the rationale for choosing that metric is and I will try to accommodate.

In the meantime, here is an article from SF Gate

Hospitals new No. 1 industry in S.F., report shows - SFGate

[04kL4nD]

I'm only presenting the facts as stated by the report. The hospitals industry has the largest economic impact on the local SF economy, much more so than tourism, or tech.

I'd imagine that the tech industry also spends more than tourism (especially considering how highly paid tech workers are, along with R/D), but that doesn't make it a larger industry than tourism though, it just means that it is more expensive to operate the industry. You see, largest means that it has the most employees. You are playing fast and loose with words, so it's difficult to take what you have to say at face value.

[ExeterMedia]

I'm not being loose with words. Here I'll be more clear.

Hospitals by far generate more money than Tourism for SF's local economy (likely double according to the report) making it the #1 industry in SF by economic impact.

On top of that, SF's healthcare industry generates massive profits from giving Rx drugs to homeless people.
http://www.reportingonhealth.org/res...meless-patient

This exacerbates the income equality in the city, and on a personal note, it's disgusting and morally reprehensible.

People say SF is becoming a city of the very rich and the very poor, but some areas look increasingly like a ward for the very ill and those who get rich putting them on pills. You can see plenty of homeless sleeping on streets outside empty buildings; the homeless don't have a place to live, but they do have a backpack full of Rx pills that somebody made a lot of money from, and each "heavy user" can generate more than $500k-$1m/year in revenue annually. No joke - reported fact.

How many derelicts do you want coughing on your food and springing on you for liquor money, wacking off on the MUNI train while menacing you, or robbing you at knife point or breaking into your car or home, and how much of that will it take for you to move away, especially if you have kids? A guy I know who still lives in SF told me landlords are raking in massive increases, but also dealing with a lot of turnover costs, because people don't want to pay $3k/month for a place where they have to step over addicts in the doorway. I don't like to say it, but some parts of the city look and smell like an open-air mental ward, so people (like myself) move out. The paranoid regressive ("conservative") complaints about blue hairdos or men holding hands kept the Storm Front brigade away, to the betterment of the city generally, but the complaints about the deranged and definitely sick and possibly dangerous vagrants are serious and truthful whether people who live in SF want to admit it or not.

Anyone with a family doesn't want to raise them around "that". It's an unfortunate part of SF that I don't see any short term or long term solutions to, so I left.

[04kL4nD]

I'm not being loose with words. Here I'll be more clear.

Hospitals by far generate more money than Tourism for SF's local economy (likely double according to the report) making it the #1 industry in SF by economic impact.

That's not what you LITERALLY said earlier though

You said:

San Francisco's largest industry is currently hospitals and there is a reason for that. This is all verifiable fact.

[ExeterMedia]

My mistake, I should have clarified by economic impact, and not total employed.

[04kL4nD]

There's a pretty large distinction, so I'm not sure why you deliberately ignored it.

[HappyinCali]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

I'd imagine that the tech industry also spends more than tourism (especially considering how highly paid tech workers are, along with R/D), but that doesn't make it a larger industry than tourism though, it just means that it is more expensive to operate the industry. You see, largest means that it has the most employees. You are playing fast and loose with words, so it's difficult to take what you have to say at face value.

Please let us know, how you would like to measure the industry size. what metric would you like to use? Taxes paid? Because many hospitals are non-profit. Money spent on them? People employed? Money spent by employees? Wages generated by the industry? Please be specific, as to what metric you would like addressed and what the rationale for choosing that metric is and I will try to accommodate.

Again I NEVER made that claim (it may very well be wrong), but I hate it when people attack posts, based on semantics and refuse to offer anything of value, other than snarky one liners. Here is an exercise

According to this, there are 85.7k people employed in Healthcare in San Francisco and 136.9k people employed in Hospitality and Leisure. http://www.bayareaeconomy.org/wp-con...ancisco_MD.pdf

According to BLS, the Median wage for Healthcare professionals is $741 per week. According to BLS, the median weekly wage for hospitality and Leisure is $492.

Industries at a Glance: Health Care and Social Assistance: NAICS 62
Industries at a Glance: Leisure and Hospitality

So 85.7k workers X $741 per week X 50 weeks= $3.2 bn of implied wages
136.9k workers X $492 per week X 50 Weeks= $3.4 bn of implied wages

So roughly equal.

So at this point, we have provided you with a report that says SF Hospital industry is the top industry in the city.

We have also engaged you in a reasonable exercise of implied total wages paid.

Would you please provide us with goalposts that neither I, nor ExeterMedia, nor you can move? I will repeat the question again.

Please let us know, how you would like to measure the industry size. what metric would you like to use? Taxes paid? Because many hospitals are non-profit. Money spent on them? People employed? Money spent by employees? Wages generated by the industry? Please be specific, as to what metric you would like addressed and what the rationale for choosing that metric is and I will try to accommodate.

Thanks!