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Your suburban, commuter's perspective really bolsters my position, you know.
There's nothing wrong with not seeing the value of living in San Francisco. It just means it's not for you. So what? You live in the suburbs. Why would you understand San Francisco living or even why someone else might enjoy the City? You simply don't have a frame of reference for it.
I don't claim to know anything about what attracts you to the Peninsula. I'm sure it has its appeal to you. But I can safely say that a person who really likes living in San Francisco and values the contradictions, energy, inspiration, quirkiness, and urban environment of SF above concerns for yards and antiseptic, homogenous environments would not be drawn to some place like Palo Alto, just as I confidently said someone whose values are in opposition to those of avid San Franciscans aren't drawn to the City. You reinforced this with your comment.
As a resident of a suburban community much closer to, and more closely aligned with San Jose, you might ask yourself what your fascination with San Francisco is. Obviously, it holds some allure for you, or you'd be spending your time on the San Jose board, right?
Precisely my sentiments. Having before lived in Charlotte, sterile cities are generally too vapid to appeal to me. I like a city with grit. A city that's rough on the edges but still genuine. It's authentic, diverse, liberal, and urbane. Cosmopolitan. And the placement of poverty and wealth in San Francisco isn't healthy but it adds a certain character to the City that you couldn't find elsewhere. People will always complain about the homeless and insane and the stoners you'll find in the course of a day or a week or a year in San Francisco, but compared to where I live, the contrast is psychologically and physically electric. I'd much rather live in a dynamic environment like SF than out here in a cold, autocentric, sprawling, and homogenous environment that is all too common throughout the region and nation.
But TVC has been in the Bay Area for about four years now. Doesn't that in itself qualify her as an expert in all things California?
Years of residence isn't entirely consequential to a person's knowledge of a place. Some people who find it hard to adjust to life in a different location just can't possibly understand the individual merits and functions of life there. For instance, I only arrived hear two years ago but have studied San Francisco in particular for quite a while now. It's my favorite city in the world, but I do realize the mainstream issues that pollute it and cause it to have an unfavorable reputation for visitors.
Regardless, I wouldn't be so quick to paint such a broad generalization over a city as diverse and extreme as San Francisco.
For some, false facts masquerade themselves as opinions, but still others can discredit that with practical knowledge.
Your suburban, commuter's perspective really bolsters my position, you know.
There's nothing wrong with not seeing the value of living in San Francisco. It just means it's not for you. So what? You live in the suburbs. Why would you understand San Francisco living or even why someone else might enjoy the City? You simply don't have a frame of reference for it.
I don't claim to know anything about what attracts you to the Peninsula. I'm sure it has its appeal to you. But I can safely say that a person who really likes living in San Francisco and values the contradictions, energy, inspiration, quirkiness, and urban environment of SF above concerns for yards and antiseptic, homogenous environments would not be drawn to some place like Palo Alto, just as I confidently said someone whose values are in opposition to those of avid San Franciscans aren't drawn to the City. You reinforced this with your comment.
As a resident of a suburban community much closer to, and more closely aligned with San Jose, you might ask yourself what your fascination with San Francisco is. Obviously, it holds some allure for you, or you'd be spending your time on the San Jose board, right?
Now I find this very amusing. Essentially what you are saying is that you personally find SF interesting for it's "startup society"....I'm sure you are one of those people walking down O'Farrell St with their iphone 5s out, trying to find Bourbon & Branch.
While your opinion is as valid as anyone elses, it comes from the perspective of the small percentage of people that work in these fields and isn't shared by the majority of people in SF. People like Google attorney Jack Halperin who just come, purchase property and evict whole families without any concern. While this might be his right, it doesnt make it right. The sad truth is that the aspect of SF culture you are talking about isn't culture at all.
I've lived here for 14 years. I saw the first tech bubble and it was much more organic; I worked in the industry and while there were transplants it seemed to me that most people working in the field were Bay Area residents. The people that are part of this second wave are not only not from here but put simply, don't know how to act. No manners or social graces of any kind. No real concern for the city...I've never seen any of the people from the tech/finance industry attend any of the community programs or the town hallish meetings put on by SFPD or my districts supervisors office. What I do see and hear are cookie cutter people saying the exact same thing as the rest of their peers (i.e. "no, it's like (insert stupid app with a 3 month life span in either OS marketplace), but it's for (equally stupid app that no one will use in 6 months) and it will change everything!" or "...yeah, my vesting schedule..." or "...my time is so heavily monetized, I just don't know if I can spend a full week in Ibiza..." side note - the last thing is something I heard coming out of the mouth of the embodiment of tech dbaggery, it was something this idiot was telling some vapid drunk girl he had picked up at a bar we were both leaving as he tried to push me out of the way to get into the cab I had just hailed.), people that tend to stick to "their own kind" as it were. The people that make this city diverse are being pushed out, making it the homogenized vest wearing tech crowd and the subsidized poor and crazy.
It's great that an idea can be born, funded and seen to fruition. It's not great that property management companies are raising rents to absurd levels based on the fact that a disproportionate amount of SF residents (i.e. those in the tech and finance crowd) make six figures and up. It's not great that snobby dbags are in every bar and restaurant i go to, faces shoved into their devices. It's not great that people with no sense of civic duty, community or even common courtesy have overrun SF. When the well runs dry (again), these people will pick up and leave (again) without having done anything for SF or the people who live here.
While i am a transplant, I've paid my dues figuratively and literally. I've donated time and money to Glide, worked toward reforming substandard living conditions in SF's SROs, hunted down (with the help of other long term residents) a known and wanted fugitive from the law after he broke into my neighbors place on the Haight and threatened to kill her and her BF. I've done things to try to make my home turf better, to try to make a positive impact on my city...what about you?
Oh I was just ribbing a bit. TVC posts a lot of "expert" opinion based on her four years of California experience. If you want life nice and vanilla, move to a gated community. I first arrived in 1966. Still love it with all it's goobers.
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,135,780 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by garyjohnyang
Precisely my sentiments. Having before lived in Charlotte, sterile cities are generally too vapid to appeal to me. I like a city with grit. A city that's rough on the edges but still genuine. It's authentic, diverse, liberal, and urbane. Cosmopolitan. And the placement of poverty and wealth in San Francisco isn't healthy but it adds a certain character to the City that you couldn't find elsewhere. People will always complain about the homeless and insane and the stoners you'll find in the course of a day or a week or a year in San Francisco, but compared to where I live, the contrast is psychologically and physically electric. I'd much rather live in a dynamic environment like SF than out here in a cold, autocentric, sprawling, and homogenous environment that is all too common throughout the region and nation.
I don't turn a blind eye to the homeless problems in SF or the fact that the City has some rundown areas. It's part of the City. It all adds character. It compels us to act, to change the City. It's real life. As a writer, the energy and inspiration here is unmistakable, though. I've only been here a short time myself, but I know that all I need to do to get real, experiential perspective I step outside my front door.
It's funny, people slam new San Franciscans for gentrifying the City and removing the grit, while outsiders wish for antiseptic homogeneity. I suppose we should take it as a compliment that we are held to such scrutiny by those without a vested interest here.
I remember vividly celebrating a really great job interview with a small carafe of wine and a panini at a sidewalk cafe on Washington Square. It was late October, warm in the sun, but the breeze was cool and pleasant. There were artists showing their work in the park across the street. A street saxophonist a few blocks away was playing Beatles tunes, which were echoing off the alleyways facing the square. The bells of Sts. Peter and Paul chiming the hour drowned out the saxophone for a few seconds. The sidewalk was full of people walking dogs, speaking multiple languages, and sightseeing on a midday Wednesday.
I remember this, because I chuckled to myself thinking what a perfect answer this all was to the question my interviewer had asked me a half hour earlier. He asked me, "So, why San Francisco?"
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,447,145 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt
Oh I was just ribbing a bit. TVC posts a lot of "expert" opinion based on her four years of California experience. If you want life nice and vanilla, move to a gated community. I first arrived in 1966. Still love it with all it's goobers.
Nice! I don't dislike SF I just would never live there.
If you want a nice Vanilla life just live in a 200ft square boat and sit on the compute all day posting your "expert" opinions.
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,135,780 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corleon3
Now I find this very amusing. Essentially what you are saying is that you personally find SF interesting for it's "startup society"....I'm sure you are one of those people walking down O'Farrell St with their iphone 5s out, trying to find Bourbon & Branch.
While your opinion is as valid as anyone elses, it comes from the perspective of the small percentage of people that work in these fields and isn't shared by the majority of people in SF. People like Google attorney Jack Halperin who just come, purchase property and evict whole families without any concern. While this might be his right, it doesnt make it right. The sad truth is that the aspect of SF culture you are talking about isn't culture at all.
I've lived here for 14 years. I saw the first tech bubble and it was much more organic; I worked in the industry and while there were transplants it seemed to me that most people working in the field were Bay Area residents. The people that are part of this second wave are not only not from here but put simply, don't know how to act. No manners or social graces of any kind. No real concern for the city...I've never seen any of the people from the tech/finance industry attend any of the community programs or the town hallish meetings put on by SFPD or my districts supervisors office. What I do see and hear are cookie cutter people saying the exact same thing as the rest of their peers (i.e. "no, it's like (insert stupid app with a 3 month life span in either OS marketplace), but it's for (equally stupid app that no one will use in 6 months) and it will change everything!" or "...yeah, my vesting schedule..." or "...my time is so heavily monetized, I just don't know if I can spend a full week in Ibiza..." side note - the last thing is something I heard coming out of the mouth of the embodiment of tech dbaggery, it was something this idiot was telling some vapid drunk girl he had picked up at a bar we were both leaving as he tried to push me out of the way to get into the cab I had just hailed.), people that tend to stick to "their own kind" as it were. The people that make this city diverse are being pushed out, making it the homogenized vest wearing tech crowd and the subsidized poor and crazy.
It's great that an idea can be born, funded and seen to fruition. It's not great that property management companies are raising rents to absurd levels based on the fact that a disproportionate amount of SF residents (i.e. those in the tech and finance crowd) make six figures and up. It's not great that snobby dbags are in every bar and restaurant i go to, faces shoved into their devices. It's not great that people with no sense of civic duty, community or even common courtesy have overrun SF. When the well runs dry (again), these people will pick up and leave (again) without having done anything for SF or the people who live here.
While i am a transplant, I've paid my dues figuratively and literally. I've donated time and money to Glide, worked toward reforming substandard living conditions in SF's SROs, hunted down (with the help of other long term residents) a known and wanted fugitive from the law after he broke into my neighbors place on the Haight and threatened to kill her and her BF. I've done things to try to make my home turf better, to try to make a positive impact on my city...what about you?
Seems your frame of reference is limited.
I'm not in tech or finance. I volunteer and I vote. I also donate my work to Bay Area causes. And as much as I love cocktails ( I have been called an alcoholic on this board) I have never been to Bourbon and Branch.
It's not the "startup society" I find interesting. What makes you assume that? I do like the creativity that spawned it, though. I like how tech fuels ingenuity and pushes people to invent things here. That permeates all parts of the Bay Area and attracts all kinds of people. In San Francisco that's historically more true than anywhere else in the Bay.
As a resident of San Francisco, I'd pay slightly more attention to your opinion of "the perspectives of most San Franciscans" than I would that of someone who has never lived here.
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,447,145 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalparadise
Your suburban, commuter's perspective really bolsters my position, you know.
You know absolutely nothing about my actual lifestyle and I can guarantee is it much more interesting than yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalparadise
There's nothing wrong with not seeing the value of living in San Francisco. It just means it's not for you. So what?
That's right so let it go. It is not about not seeing the value...it is about seeing the lack of value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalparadise
You simply don't have a frame of reference for it.
Sure I do. You just don't know what you are talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalparadise
As a resident of a suburban community much closer to, and more closely aligned with San Jose, you might ask yourself what your fascination with San Francisco is. Obviously, it holds some allure for you, or you'd be spending your time on the San Jose board, right?
I have no fascination with SF. I have worked in that city and played in that city for over 4.5 years and I know it well.
Why would I want to spend my time on a board that I know nothing about? Why would I have anything in common with SJ lifestyles? I don't live anywhere near SJ and the only time I have been there is to fly out of the SJ Airport...you certainly assume a lot. You would make great strides on the forum if you only stopped assuming.
Your suburban, commuter's perspective really bolsters my position, you know.
There's nothing wrong with not seeing the value of living in San Francisco. It just means it's not for you. So what? You live in the suburbs. Why would you understand San Francisco living or even why someone else might enjoy the City? You simply don't have a frame of reference for it.
I don't claim to know anything about what attracts you to the Peninsula. I'm sure it has its appeal to you. But I can safely say that a person who really likes living in San Francisco and values the contradictions, energy, inspiration, quirkiness, and urban environment of SF above concerns for yards and antiseptic, homogenous environments would not be drawn to some place like Palo Alto, just as I confidently said someone whose values are in opposition to those of avid San Franciscans aren't drawn to the City. You reinforced this with your comment.
As a resident of a suburban community much closer to, and more closely aligned with San Jose, you might ask yourself what your fascination with San Francisco is. Obviously, it holds some allure for you, or you'd be spending your time on the San Jose board, right?
I agree with a lot of what you like about SF, but slagging the suburbs and the important relationship between SF and the greater Bay Area is misguided.
You know, Hewlett and Packard's garage, a place that spawned a fair bit of energy and inspiration, is on Addison Avenue in Palo Alto. Or look to Google. Quirkiness, try the Stanford Band. Yes, there's a difference between SF and Palo Alto, or Oakland, or Marin, or Concord. But part of what I think people like about the Bay Area is the diversity of neighborhoods and communities in the region. If you want urban life, you can find that; a ranch, that too; stripmall suburbia, check. But all of these communities are tied together by a bond of tenets that tend to spread across and shape Bay Area culture. Diversity. Cosmopolitanism. A connection to nature and localism. Innovation and the rejection of tradition for tradition's sake. The beauty of the landscape.
Pigeonholing SF residents and residents of the greater Bay as two distinct groups misreads the culture of the area. Would you tell residents of Queens or the Bronx that Manhattan or New York wasn't for them; that they just didn't comprehend the appeal of New York's culture? Long time residents of the Bay often jump from city to suburb and back -- my family's been doing this since they were in Vallejo and Palo Alto in the 19th century.
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