10 more years for the A's (San Jose, San Francisco: 2013, buy, live)

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

And they still have said land which I am sure has increased in value since they purchased it.

Right, but that's neither here nor there. The point is, contrary to your statement, San Jose has indeed already spent taxpayer money($27 Million in fact) to purchase the land on which Lew Wolff wanted to build his stadium.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Right, but that's neither here nor there. The point is, contrary to your statement, San Jose has indeed already spent taxpayer money($27 Million in fact) to purchase the land on which Lew Wolff wanted to build his stadium.

In which the city of San Jose would have received even more money in the form of tax revenue.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by bobby_guz_man

It's a terrible ballpark because it is old and because the football modifications trampled what was once a very nice ballpark. No need to compete with AT&T because that park is already the top 2 or 3 in terms of ambiance/beauty, it's extremely hard to compete with AT&T, no matter where the location in the Bay is. Howard Terminal would just be another AT&T clone and all you get is the Gnats fan poo-pooing the place as a copycat of their phone booth.

Downtown ballparks succeed because they make use of readily available food services along with great public transportation. Coliseum already has good public transportation, if Wolff is given the land around it to develop ie a mixed-use, TOD development, we will see a transformation take place regarding things to do and places to eat before/after the ball game.

The facility is terrible but so is the location. The area is ghetto and everything outside of that property will always will be, at least in our lifetimes.

Considering the A's attendance issues and having lost casual and bandwagon-type fans to AT&T, yes there is need to compete imo.

What middle or upper income person would want to live in that area? What middle or upper income person is going to want to go there on non-game days? There's has to be some sort of demand to even build that stuff and I'm just not seeing it at all. Maybe 30 years down the road gentrification will spread to that area but it's nowhere near there now.

[04kL4nD]

I think Coliseum City is a dumb idea too. Why have people given up on Howard Terminal?

[Natural510]

The main drawback to the Coliseum area is that it only draws dedicated fans. Casual fans or otherwise curious people won't come often to a place where there is no option before & after a game besides tailgaiting and is otherwise desolate/scary when there is no game happening. The Coliseum site was fine for the cookie-cutter era of the 1960s, but in the 21st century doesn't really offer for long-term success. The A's attendance issues are due to more than Mount Davis, or even ownership's willingness to commit to the city.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

In which the city of San Jose would have received even more money in the form of tax revenue.

Yes, the general concept is that it's an investment-I was only pointing out that you were incorrect. San Jose has indeed spent money to woo Lew Wolff, even though he and Jon Fisher could have bought it themselves no sweat, since Fisher is a billionaire and Wolff is a land developer. Every city does that to varying degrees.

This is a paradox of major league sports and their host cities that I dislike, bit that's how it's done these days.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

I think Coliseum City is a dumb idea too. Why have people given up on Howard Terminal?

Because it has toxic waste that needs to be cleaned up ($), no public transportation ($), rail lines in the area that either need to be stopped or bridges built over ($), many of the industrial businesses at HT will need to be moved so that restaurants/housing etc can be added ($), have to deal with maritime use ($). All of this before even spending a dollar on building the stadium. I have seen some estimates of above costing 250 million dollars on top of the cost to build the actual stadium.

HT has always only been a fancy picture.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Yes, the general concept is that it's an investment-I was only pointing out that you were incorrect. San Jose has indeed spent money to woo Lew Wolff, even though he and Jon Fisher could have bought it themselves no sweat, since Fisher is a billionaire and Wolff is a land developer. Every city does that to varying degrees.

This is a paradox of major league sports and their host cities that I dislike, bit that's how it's done these days.

What San Jose was giving to get the A's was exceptionally small compared to what is normally shelled out by local governments to get sports teams (generally about half of costs, not just property). I believe that is why bud sellig doesn't want the a's in San Jose, because it would jeopardize all the other teams from getting tax dollars to help pay for stadiums. This would have worked for the a's since it is such a lucrative area and the returns on investment are much higher in San Jose than any place in Oakland which is why tax dollars are needed for Oakland, but not in San Jose. When I say tax dollars, I mean actual dollars to build, not consolidating land for the team, which Oakland would have to do at CC and HT on top of the tax dollars to offset the small investment return.

I have been an A's fan my entire life. I live just a handful of exists south of o.co and the team moving to San Jose would definatly limit how often I can go to games. But San Jose provides the most revenue and thus the best team (retaining current players and signing free agents) which gives the A's the best chance of winning the WS. That is why I think it is best for the a's to move to SJ.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

What San Jose was giving to get the A's was exceptionally small compared to what is normally shelled out by local governments to get sports teams (generally about half of costs, not just property).

Right, and in the case of Howard Terminal, a private investment group led by Don Knauss is willing to upwards of $500 million dollars-NOW.

Couple that with the funding Wolff is able to secure and the question of paying is resolved-quite splendidly at that.

But Wolff thinks its beyond the ability of modern technology to build a stadium there, which is ridiculous--LOL

All the years he wasted trying to leave, the stadium could have been built.

I believe that is why bud sellig doesn't want the a's in San Jose, because it would jeopardize all the other teams from getting tax dollars to help pay for stadiums.

Taxes have nothing to do with it imo.

Bud Selig does want the team in San Jose. The only reason the A's havent moved is because the Giants are enforcing the territorial rights agreement the A's agreed to, and Lew Wolff promised Larry Baer he would honor when he was allowed to buy the team in 2005.

This would have worked for the a's since it is such a lucrative area and the returns on investment are much higher in San Jose than any place in Oakland which is why tax dollars are needed for Oakland, but not in San Jose.

Actually this is incorrect as Ive explained above.

In fact, as a pointed out in a previous post in this thread, nearly all of the funding for the A's and Raiders stadium already identified, is private.

Wolff, Davis, Knauss, the NFL and Colony Capital is all private, btw.

And the sum of all those contrubutors dwarfs anything we've seen from San Jose. It's quite a breathtaking amount actually.

When I say tax dollars, I mean actual dollars to build, not consolidating land for the team, which Oakland would have to do at CC and HT on top of the tax dollars to offset the small investment return.

See above. LOL

I have been an A's fan my entire life. I live just a handful of exists south of o.co and the team moving to San Jose would definatly limit how often I can go to games. But San Jose provides the most revenue and thus the best team (retaining current players and signing free agents) which gives the A's the best chance of winning the WS. That is why I think it is best for the a's to move to SJ.

The East Bay is one of the wealthiest regions in the nation. Build us a world class stadium in Oakland and we will fill it, just like the Giants' terrible attendance skyrocketed after ATT was built.

And its ironic to your assumptions that neither SAP or Levi's are Silicon Valley based tech companies yet they are the ones who are putting their names on venues down there, and YET, the richest techie in Silicon Valley put his company's name all over Oracle Arena.

Food for thought.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Right, and in the case of Howard Terminal, a private investment group led by Don Knauss is willing to upwards of $500 million dollars-NOW.

Couple that with the funding Wolff is able to secure and the question of paying is resolved-quite splendidly at that.

But Wolff thinks its beyond the ability of modern technology to build a stadium there, which is ridiculous--LOL

All the years he wasted trying to leave, the stadium could have been built.



Taxes have nothing to do with it imo.

Bud Selig does want the team in San Jose. The only reason the A's havent moved is because the Giants are enforcing the territorial rights agreement the A's agreed to, and Lew Wolff promised Larry Baer he would honor when he was allowed to buy the team in 2005.


Actually this is incorrect as Ive explained above.

In fact, as a pointed out in a previous post in this thread, nearly all of the funding for the A's and Raiders stadium already identified, is private.

Wolff, Davis, Knauss, the NFL and Colony Capital is all private, btw.

And the sum of all those contrubutors dwarfs anything we've seen from San Jose. It's quite a breathtaking amount actually.


See above. LOL


The East Bay is one of the wealthiest regions in the nation. Build us a world class stadium in Oakland and we will fill it, just like the Giants' terrible attendance skyrocketed after ATT was built.

And its ironic to your assumptions that neither SAP or Levi's are Silicon Valley based tech companies yet they are the ones who are putting their names on venues down there, and YET, the richest techie in Silicon Valley put his company's name all over Oracle Arena.

Food for thought.

The raiders want to build now, which is impossible while the a's are still in Oakland. You seem to believe the a's and raiders are working together, but the complete opisit is true right now. The best interests of the a's and raiders are completely contradictory.

Knauss secrete foreign investors is nonsense. If Knauss is worried about investing in Oakland he wouldn't be sending jobs out of the city.

The east bay is wealthy compared to the rest of the world, it is not wealthy compared to SV. If it was the giants would have their panties in a bunch of the a's moving farther away.

If a stadium was built in Oakland I am sure it will be filled for awhile. Once the newness wears off the simple fact of a really dangerious location still remains. I'm not one to worry to much about where I travel, but east of o.co is one of those areas.