Commuting to South Bay, torment or minor annoyance? (San Francisco, Oakland: home, neighborhood)

[peninsular]

I am considering something I am almost certain to regret. Before I do that, I'd like to get as many semi-informed anonymous opinions on my conundrum as possible. What I'm thinking of is breaking the fundamental maxim, often suggested on C-D - "live close to where you work" - in a major way.

I currently have a pretty convenient commute from Inner Sunset to the office downtown, 30 min or so by MUNI door to door. Other than dropping off my kid at school, which takes me about 15 minutes in the morning, I don't drive. Now. I've been exploring a couple of opportunities in the South Bay, 50 minutes to an hour drive each way, without traffic. I've been told that I can get to the office early or late to avoid peak commute hours and only be there 3-4 times a week. The question is, will a sane amount of additional salary be able to compensate for my certain pain and suffering? I work in tech and make a little over an average experienced engineer's wage. To put it a slightly different way, what kind of a raise would you trade for a 2-hour a day commute 3-4 times a week?

[jade408]

What they aren't telling you is that to avoid the PM traffic you need to leave at 2pm or wait until about 8pm. They would need to provide a helicopter for me to work in South Bay from Oakland. And SF isn't really easier or closer. It might be 15 minutes shorter during the peak. Maybe. All the highways to SF back up quite a lot too.

I'd do it for 2x salary and helicopter usage. Maybe same salary with a helicopter. 3-4x a week is too many. I'd only be willing to drive down there once a week.

Stick to places on the Caltrain lime, but that would still suck for you. Look for a company that has a shuttle.

Keep in mind Bay Area traffic is up about 20% this year and appears to be getting worse. I certainly noticed the increases in my San Mateo commute.

[davdaven]

The commute will be terrible, but it's slightly less terrible if you stick with 280. Coming from the Inner Sunset, that should be pretty easy to do. Just hope to heck that your South Bay office is off of 280 or a major road that connects to 280--and not off 101 instead. Personally, I would only agree with the change if I could get a guarantee that I am in the office 3 days a week or less and/or there is a shuttle from my neighborhood to my office. Good luck!

[peninsular]

Thanks for your feedback, jade and davdaven. Sadly, 2x salary or helicopter is unlikely, though I didn't ask. One of the places is not far from the Caltrain, another is next to VTA, but that is pretty slow from what I understand. None of them are close to 280.

[NorCalLover]

I'd do it if the job was a great fit for me, there was a good raise involved (that would do more than just cover extra commuting costs), and I had a written guarantee of work from home 2x / week. If I really liked my job in SF I'd probably stay there rather than take on the commute.

It doesn't make alot of sense to me to take the Caltrain from San Francisco, given that you live in the Inner Sunset, but I wonder if you could drive to somewhere like San Bruno and pick up Caltrain from there. (Unless your child's school is right on the way to one of the SF stations and you're already halfway there.)

[jk88cal]

No one can answer what raise is needed for the commute trade off. The future potential of the company and job is probably a much bigger factor than the current income delta. My general suggestion is this. If you are still progressing in your career, then go for best company and position to advance your career. If that happens to be in South Bay, then so be it. You can consider moving too.

On the other hand, if you are maxed out in your career, then stay where you are. The extra 10-15% pay increase likely 1 time increase. I don't think that is enough to reduce your family and personal time.

Is it do-able? Yes, I did the commute from SF to Sunnyvale using 101, from 1996 to 2001 (pre dot-com bust) when the traffic is worse than it is today. In past year, traffic has picked up, but it is not near the dot-com period. Today, seems people have more flexible work hours. The rush hour seems longer, starts earlier and ends later, but the peak period is not as bad as before. Also, 10 years ago, Friday evening commute (especially before long weekend) had the worst traffic ever. Today, Friday commute is the easiest among all weekdays. Obviously, if your going to telecommute, do it on other days of the week, not Friday. Seems everyone telecommutes on Friday, including my wife.

[sonarrat]

If it's on the bay side, I used to do 280 S - 85 N - 237 E to get over there from SSF. At peak hours that can still be slow, but off-hours it was an easy trip.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

What is the OP's definition of "South Bay?"

That can make a major difference in pain level.

If the OP really means the Southern part of the Peninsula, then not so bad.

If the OP means the "Golden Triangle" (e.g. the area bounded by 237-880-101) then ... bad.

[cardinal2007]

Originally Posted by peninsular

I am considering something I am almost certain to regret. Before I do that, I'd like to get as many semi-informed anonymous opinions on my conundrum as possible. What I'm thinking of is breaking the fundamental maxim, often suggested on C-D - "live close to where you work" - in a major way.

I currently have a pretty convenient commute from Inner Sunset to the office downtown, 30 min or so by MUNI door to door. Other than dropping off my kid at school, which takes me about 15 minutes in the morning, I don't drive. Now. I've been exploring a couple of opportunities in the South Bay, 50 minutes to an hour drive each way, without traffic. I've been told that I can get to the office early or late to avoid peak commute hours and only be there 3-4 times a week. The question is, will a sane amount of additional salary be able to compensate for my certain pain and suffering? I work in tech and make a little over an average experienced engineer's wage. To put it a slightly different way, what kind of a raise would you trade for a 2-hour a day commute 3-4 times a week?

Honestly traffic tends to be pretty bad during commute hours, even getting up to 8pm. 101 N north of 85 tends to be slow in the evenings going north maybe up to close to 8. If you really think the job is worth it then I would consider moving to be close to it, it doesn't sound like there is a shuttle service so you will be losing 8hrs a week commuting, you will be tired and you will likely not be able to see your kid. If I were you I would consider moving, likely save a lot in rent, but more importantly your stress levels will be much healthier. If you move to the South Bay or the southern peninsula (Palo Alto, Mountain View) avoiding rush hour your commute would be 15-20 minutes, depending on where in the South Bay the job is, for Palo Alto it would really have to be by the Sunnyvale border, or Cupertino.

The only way I would want to do a long commute for more money is if the job paid so much I could bank money in the bank for taking time off in the future or retiring early, basically 50% raise at least, and then quit after 1 or 2 years.

[HockeyMac18]

Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly

What is the OP's definition of "South Bay?"

That can make a major difference in pain level.

If the OP really means the Southern part of the Peninsula, then not so bad.

If the OP means the "Golden Triangle" (e.g. the area bounded by 237-880-101) then ... bad.

Yea, I think that is an important point. I used to live in SF (Inner Richmond) and did the commute to Stanford. I alternated between driving and having my GF drop me off at Caltrain, and it was never a super easy commute (although it was never super terrible, either). And when I drove, I made sure to do it in "off" hours (would try to leave SF at 9:30 AM and Stanford around 7:00 PM for a 40-50 minute drive).

I got tired of living so far and moved back to my apt in San Mateo full time...I hated how tied to my car I would be when I lived in SF...I actually drive WAY less now in downtown San Mateo than I did living in SF (funny, I know). That being said, it wasn't that bad. I just went with the "live closer to work" option because it was still available to me. I work with many people that live in SF and they make it work fine.

But I think a commute south of Palo Alto/Mt. View is really pushing the comfort level for the commute...especially if it is not reachable easily from 280. I would only commit to it with a very significant increase in pay (30-50% more at the very least), if I was able to work from home at least 1-2 times a week, and/or they had some sort of shuttle system that I could take. Otherwise, the QOL decrease might not be worth it...and I think you (Peninsular) already kind of know this based on the tone of the OP.