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Old 12-03-2014, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Berkeley, S.F. Bay Area
371 posts, read 452,647 times
Reputation: 295

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
What an F-ing train wreck! So, it's hopeless.

*throws up hands and stomps off*
Yeah, whenever SFMTA gets involved I feel that way too. I'm thinking this will just be like the Bay Bridge thing, priority first for the Transbay Tube and maybe the Geary Line. It'll be a complete waste if that gets thrown off the chopping block again. The political waves will be coming once BART concludes the inevitable, that indeed the line is feasible.

Too bad SFMTA can't be more like VTA and invite BART into the city.
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Old 01-24-2015, 09:56 PM
 
9 posts, read 6,705 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Think about it; people who are coming from Fremont or Walnut Creek to go to the beach aren't going to want to sit through a dozen stops in SF.
This is true at least for me. It would be easier to take BART from Concord to Japan town or the Inner Richmond than the current mess is. Even if I had to make a transfer in Oakland. I also wonder how would the new lines work? Meaning would Richmond, Fremont, Dublin/Pleasanton, and Pittsburg all get new lines and wouldn't that overwhelm the system in Oakland? Or would the Geary and Sunset lines have mid system turn around points?

As for disrupting things on Geary during construction, can't the new tunnel just be built a block on either side of Geary instead of right under it? I was reading about how badly the Mission was disrupted during the big dig and that would likely happen along Geary and where ever the Sunset line would end up.

Also, looking at the map of the proposed line, wouldn't Daly City become a choke point? Think about it, up to four new lines converging at a station that already has four lines running through it. That means Daly City will need extra tracks and platforms. Unless they decide to run the Sunset line through to Colma and not go through the existing Daly City Station.

As for SFMTA, I think their foot dragging would stem from arrogance and incompetence rather than malice. How long did it take them to figure to put transit only lanes in they city to speed up bus and streetcar lines? Years it seems like. Reno's RTC figure to put bus only lanes for part of its express line when the route was put in place rather than wait for traffic to screw it up. Also SFMTA probably thinks it can build a new metro tunnel that will provide better service than BART could.
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,113,192 times
Reputation: 3145
I don't really understand that proposed southern branch that links up with the main line in Daly City. It seems to divert away from the densest population centers and to run through the hills to connect with the Geary line, presumably to be able to acquire the land less expensively.

But, isn't it a better vision to align with 19th Avenue and link up with Geary that way? Digging the line beneath 19th Avenue would be a traffic tie-up for a long time, but the problem and expense of acquiring property would be greatly minimized. Plus, the existing width and necessary resurfacing of 19th after the tunnel is covered up, coupled with a few BART stations would make it a perfect candidate to be the premiere west-side commercial and dense residential mixed-use avenue. It would grow organically and density due to increased property values over years to come, don't you think?

You don't put in heavy rail subways so people can go to the beach. You put in this kind of transportation infrastructure to alleviate transportation problems and to respond to or encourage dense development in areas where it is necessary. This line could serve the existing tens of thousands who live in the area, with the potential to make the area inhabitable by tens of thousands more residents in the high(er) rise, more dense development it would ultimately encourage.
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Old 01-24-2015, 11:00 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,086 posts, read 107,127,293 times
Reputation: 115875
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalparadise View Post
You don't put in heavy rail subways so people can go to the beach. You put in this kind of transportation infrastructure to alleviate transportation problems and to respond to or encourage dense development in areas where it is necessary. This line could serve the existing tens of thousands who live in the area, with the potential to make the area inhabitable by tens of thousands more residents in the high(er) rise, more dense development it would ultimately encourage.


Interesting point. I guess one question would be: where do they want to encourage higher-rise construction, and where don't they?
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Old 01-25-2015, 12:32 AM
 
365 posts, read 777,026 times
Reputation: 350
Why would BART have to go under Geary in the Avenues? They could elevate it over the median like they do on MLK Jr. Way in north Oakland..
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Old 01-25-2015, 09:27 AM
 
372 posts, read 511,893 times
Reputation: 399
BART could introduce passing tracks and have "baby bullet" trains with limited stops, like Caltrain. I'm not sure how feasible that is, but it would help the problem of having too many stations. Millbrae to downtown SF is slower on BART (34 min to Civic Center) than the Caltrain bullet train (18 min to downtown) because of all of the stops. BART is capable of being much faster because it is electric and can start and stop faster.
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Old 01-25-2015, 09:46 AM
 
9 posts, read 6,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calicoastal View Post
BART could introduce passing tracks and have "baby bullet" trains with limited stops, like Caltrain. I'm not sure how feasible that is, but it would help the problem of having too many stations. Millbrae to downtown SF is slower on BART (34 min to Civic Center) than the Caltrain bullet train (18 min to downtown) because of all of the stops. BART is capable of being much faster because it is electric and can start and stop faster.
BART to Millbrae was a waste of money. BART should be adding new lines in the city and the Inner East Bay rather than expanding into the suburbs. The SFO extension made sense because of the ability to not drive from the suburbs, but the other stops along the line weren't really warranted. I understand that politics played a role in construction, and that needs to stop. Honestly, the MTC should be the only agency allowed to plan and allocate resources to new rail construction. Because what seems to happen is inefficient wasteful expansions get built when the more densely populated areas get ignored when they need the extra tracks more.
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Old 01-25-2015, 09:59 AM
 
372 posts, read 511,893 times
Reputation: 399
The whole point of BART is to be a commuter rail system for the Bay Area, not a local subway system for SF or Oakland. Why should people in Contra Costa County and Santa Clara County be paying tax to fund a local subway system in Oakland? Those cities need to be building out their infrastructure themselves. SF is building out its infrastructure slowly, like with the Central Subway, but Oakland is doing nothing significant AFAIK. As for the "suburbs", Contra Costa, Santa Clara, and San Mateo counties together have 1 million more people than SF + Alameda counties, so you may need to rethink what you consider the suburbs.

Last edited by calicoastal; 01-25-2015 at 10:18 AM..
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Old 01-25-2015, 10:22 AM
 
411 posts, read 718,092 times
Reputation: 460
they should build the BART line down to east coast of SF, along Mission Bay down to Candlestick. It's currently served by a really slow unreliable Muni line and is an area with a lot of potential and planned growth
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Old 01-25-2015, 10:33 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,573 posts, read 27,285,010 times
Reputation: 9007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I'm not sure it's all that predictable. I'm not sure what you mean about most of the ridership to Divisadero and the Avenues would be gone. Why? People still live there, they'd need to get from their homes to a station to ride BART downtown to work, or whatever. They'd take a local bus to the beach on weekends, instead of riding more expensive BART, where they'd have to walk several blocks to get to a station.

IDK, I'll have to think about this one.
I agree with you. Just two years ago, I was taking the hell they call the 38/38L down Geary to work. Many people would. One of the things you would hear is how they need a BART line down Geary as a commute option. Stops like Divisdero, Fillmore and Presido/Masonic would be ideal for a BART line under Geary.
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