Why does the Bay Area have low poverty but high homelessness? (camps, living)

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Really?

Any "real discussion" should be fact based, don't you agree?

I made the point that the bulk of spending should be in mental health, education and work programs, which only makes up a small percent of the money being spent on homelessness as of now. There is no proven solution yet, so discussion in this matter is subjective. It's good to backup arguments with facts when applicable, but it is also important to remember nobody knows how to fix this problem as of now.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

I made the point that the bulk of spending should be in mental health, education and work programs, which only makes up a small percent of the money being spent on homelessness as of now. There is no proven solution yet, so discussion in this matter is subjective. It's good to backup arguments with facts when applicable, but it is also important to remember nobody knows how to fix this problem as of now.

1 - When, exactly, are facts NOT applicable?

2 - You have not educated yourself as to how those funds are applied under the categories identified. Nor, apparently, do you understand anything about the nature of most of the problems you complain about. Clearly you know nothing about mental illnesses and addiction, nor about medications

As I have said several times, you have the obvious ability to learn and understand. Baffling you don't bother while continuing to press on with ignorant statements and claims.

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

1 - When, exactly, are facts NOT applicable?

2 - You have not educated yourself as to how those funds are applied under the categories identified. Nor, apparently, do you understand anything about the nature of most of the problems you complain about. Clearly you know nothing about mental illnesses and addiction, nor about medications

As I have said several times, you have the obvious ability to learn and understand. Baffling you don't bother while continuing to press on with ignorant statements and claims.

Oh yes, the FAR left mindset is so knowledgable regarding these issues which explains why SF doesn't have a homeless crisis, right?

Get off your high horse Tulemutt. Trust me, I feel the same way about you. My feeling toward you, is that you live in a little bubble not understanding the underlying issues at work. If you are going to avoid discussing solutions and instead just make cheap attacks at me, then we can add each other to the ignore list as well, so we don't ever have to see each other's posts again.

When it comes to facts, you can use them to support both arguments, so on issues that haven't been solved yet, creative thinking also needs to apply.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

Oh yes, the FAR left mindset is so knowledgable regarding these issues which explains why SF doesn't have a homeless crisis, right?

Get off your high horse Tulemutt. Trust me, I feel the same way about you. My feeling toward you, is that you live in a little bubble not understanding the underlying issues at work. If you are going to avoid discussing solutions and instead just make cheap attacks at me, then we can add each other to the ignore list as well, so we don't ever have to see each other's posts again.

When it comes to facts, you can use them to support both arguments, so on issues that haven't been solved yet, creative thinking also needs to apply.

I see. Well, er, no, I don't.

At what point did ANY political ideology enter the conversation?

At what point has anyone said SF doesn't have a homeless crisis?

What "high horse" am I on?

What "bubble" do I live in, having lived well more than twice your years, probably about 4x the adult years you have under your belt - mostly connected to the streets you talk about but haven't roamed and interacted with as I have.

Yes, "Facts" can (and should) be used in ALL sides of discussions. And you aren't using them. That's the point.

How am I not discussing "Solutions"? There is no simple or single "Solution" to the symptom of homelessness - because, as I have been pointing out to you, the causes of homelessness, and addictions, are many. The Solutions, plural, are many. And many are being applied through the existing programs. And many people benefit from them. Others do not and continue to fall. And new afflicted continually enter the cycle even as others graduate.

Your "Solution" is to force sobriety. Very nice, bmw. Except everyone in the field KNOWS for a FACT that forced sobriety cures nothing. Speaking of discussing solutions.

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

I see. Well, er, no, I don't.

At what point did ANY political ideology enter the conversation?

At what point has anyone said SF doesn't have a homeless crisis?

What "high horse" am I on?

What "bubble" do I live in, having lived well more than twice your years, probably about 4x the adult years you have under your belt - mostly connected to the streets you talk about but haven't roamed and interacted with as I have.

Yes, "Facts" can (and should) be used in ALL sides of discussions. And you aren't using them. That's the point.

How am I not discussing "Solutions"? There is no simple or single "Solution" to the symptom of homelessness - because, as I have been pointing out to you, the causes of homelessness, and addictions, are many. The Solutions, plural, are many. And many are being applied through the existing programs. And many people benefit from them. Others do not and continue to fall. And new afflicted continually enter the cycle even as others graduate.

Your "Solution" is to force sobriety. Very nice, bmw. Except everyone in the field KNOWS for a FACT that forced sobriety cures nothing. Speaking of discussing solutions.

1) At what point? Come on, you should know lol.

2) Nobody is saying SF doesn't have a homeless crisis. However, many are basically saying the way we tackle the issue shouldn't change. Well, I can tell you that the current method isn't working.

3) You act as if you know everything about the issue and that anyone that disagrees, needs to go educate themselves.

4) You think giving homeless free money and housing will fix their problems that is what I call living in a bubble.

5) Facts support both arguments.

6) You haven't recommended anything to solve the issue besides defending the current path, which is not working.

[04kL4nD]

I think what he and others are saying is that eradicating homelessness isn't realistic. It's not some new phenomenon that has a simple solution. It's also not ever going to completely disappear. Simply locking people up and turning them into criminals isn't any better than just ignoring it. It's much more complicated than the 'solution' you are positing. It sounds like you're just bothered by the visibly addicted and mentally ill, which is only one part of the equation.

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

I think what he and others are saying is that eradicating homelessness isn't realistic. It's not some new phenomenon that has a simple solution. Simply locking people up and turning them into criminals isn't any better than just ignoring it. It's much more complicated than the 'solution' you are positing.

I never claimed it would completely solve the issue. I also mentioned the city should be focusing resources primarily toward education, mental health and a jobs program.

[04kL4nD]

Ok, but your main argument and solution is advocating jail time for these people.

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

Ok, but your main argument and solution is advocating jail time for these people.

Why should a person who is high or carrying meth be arrested but not a homeless person?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

I think what he and others are saying is that eradicating homelessness isn't realistic. It's not some new phenomenon that has a simple solution. It's also not ever going to completely disappear. Simply locking people up and turning them into criminals isn't any better than just ignoring it. It's much more complicated than the 'solution' you are positing. It sounds like you're just bothered by the visibly addicted and mentally ill, which is only one part of the equation.

Precisely spot on.