Desperately want to leave San Francisco. (Palo Alto: homeless, train, housing)

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by dalparadise

See? That's why it's relevant to note the last time someone rode BART. I believe the cloth was all gone by 2012. I was a daily BART rider in late 2011-mid 2012 and remember the first few cars getting the vinyl on my trains.

Nope you don't have your facts straight. When I rode last year it had cloth seats.

The last of the wool seats followed the wooly mammoth into extinction at exactly 10:50 a.m. on December 30, 2014. BART utility workers yanked out the grimy seat and replaced it with pristine vinyl under the watchful eyes of a few interested reporters and to the delight of tens of thousands of BART riders.

http://archives.sfexaminer.com/sanfr...nt?oid=2915461

https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2015/news20150102

You can change out the cloth seats but you still can't control the junkies and drugged out people from using the floor and the seats as their own personal toilet.

It's not enjoyable for most people to have sit next to a junkie who is fading in and out and who smells like a Porta John.

[dalparadise]

Originally Posted by Matadora

And many bring their third would living standards with them, which is why you see so many outdated and lack of modern housing amenities in SF.



I agree...LA would be a much more enjoyable city to live in.

Perhaps. Though if, like Andy stated, you are seeking to leave the Bay Area suburbs, LA probably doesn't offer much by way of a different environment.

If you move, you should also note that the LA area is sometimes called "The Southland". This does not mean it is The South, as in the region around Mississippi, Arkansas, etc. Google might snip part of the definition on you...

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by dalparadise

Perhaps. Though if, like Andy stated, you are seeking to leave the Bay Area suburbs, LA probably doesn't offer much by way of a different environment.

If you move, you should also note that the LA area is sometimes called "The Southland". This does not mean it is The South, as in the region around Mississippi, Arkansas, etc. Google might snip part of the definition on you...

You don't represent LA.

I don't need your advice on moving anywhere or your opinions of LA.

I am fairly certain that my experiences in LA over the past 30 years have been quite different than yours.

[dalparadise]

Originally Posted by Matadora

Nope you don't have your facts straight. When I rode last year it had cloth seats.



http://archives.sfexaminer.com/sanfr...nt?oid=2915461

https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2015/news20150102

You can change out the cloth seats but you still can't control the junkies and drugged out people from using the floor and the seats as their own personal toilet.

It's not enjoyable for most people to have sit next to a junkie who is fading in and out and who smells like a Porta John.

See, that wasn't so hard. So it was a year ago, when there were still cloth seats. Hmm... The cloth seats were really few and far between a year ago. BART had been rapidly replacing them for almost two years at that point. I was no longer a frequent rider by then, but never saw a cloth seat again, though I concede a few cars on a few trains may have still had them.

Seems like an incredibly bad coincidence to get one of the few cars with cloth AND witnessing someone using the seats as a toilet with your own eyes.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Matadora

Nope you don't have your facts straight. When I rode last year it had cloth seats.



http://archives.sfexaminer.com/sanfr...nt?oid=2915461

https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2015/news20150102

You can change out the cloth seats but you still can't control the junkies and drugged out people from using the floor and the seats as their own personal toilet.

It's not enjoyable for most people to have sit next to a junkie who is fading in and out and who smells like a Porta John.

Uh oh. More potty talk.

[Bisaro TMF]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

Yeah. It's definitely cleaner than BART, and MUCH cleaner than MUNI.

Much cleaner than BART? That's laughable. The Amount of people that ride the NY Subway's makes that not possible.

[likealady]

Originally Posted by sav858

I'm wondering how long it will be before some of you realize those cloth seats no longer exist on any BART train.

I'm not oblivious, I just don't believe the vinyl seats are that much more hygienic FWIW.
Also, I don't trust that the cars are being thoroughly cleaned every day.

And as I said, "problems with SF" is not limited to the public transportation here. Just latched onto it because it was mentioned. Homeless, housing (or lack thereof), wasteful spending, political corruption, traffic, crime, NIMBYism- take your pick, guys.

[crouching_tiger]

Originally Posted by Bisaro TMF

Much cleaner than BART? That's laughable. The Amount of people that ride the NY Subway's makes that not possible.

For the millions of people that use it everyday and how efficient, reliable and cheaper it is, the NYC subway IS relatively cleaner and better maintained.

Have you visited the new subway station under the Freedom Tower? That station is AMAZING.

[Bisaro TMF]

Originally Posted by crouching_tiger

For the millions of people that use it everyday and how efficient, reliable and cheaper it is, the NYC subway IS relatively cleaner and better maintained.

Have you visited the new subway station under the Freedom Tower? That station is AMAZING.

None of that has anything to do with how clean it is. Yes it's more reliable, runs 24 hours and is well managed. But there is nothing "Clean" about that subway system. I never see rats on the Bart Platforms, you can't ride the subway without your rat encounters. With the Bart having hard seats now, you can't say NY subways are cleaner.

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by dalparadise

See, that wasn't so hard. So it was a year ago, when there were still cloth seats. Hmm... The cloth seats were really few and far between a year ago. BART had been rapidly replacing them for almost two years at that point. I was no longer a frequent rider by then, but never saw a cloth seat again, though I concede a few cars on a few trains may have still had them.

Seems like an incredibly bad coincidence to get one of the few cars with cloth AND witnessing someone using the seats as a toilet with your own eyes.

The thing you are missing is it's not the cloth seats that are the only issue. It's the filth that rides on these systems. Just last week one squatted and peed on a train my friend was on.

Getting rid of the cloth seats will not end the filth and health hazards that happens unsuspectingly.

It's not a bad coincidence...it's simply something that can happen and does happen.

How about this...go and read the blogs on that BART link I posted.

I suspect that you will also try to make excuses for their experiences as usual.