Can a couple of young professionals make it in SF for ~150k total? (San Francisco: middle-class, apartments)

[vop92]

Hi everyone

Me and my GF are finishing graduate school and thinking about moving to San Francisco. We have some job prospects there plus both of us fell in love with that city, absolutely breathtaking place. The problem is, of course, affordability. We are expecting to make around 140-150k total as a start, which translates to ~100k after taxes. I read a lot of numbers, but the opinion of people who actually live there matters much more.

Can we make a middle-class living with this kind of money? By middle class I mean renting a decent 600-700 sq. ft. 1 bedroom dog-friendly apartment in a nice (not fancy, just nice) area, with some money left for entertainment, travel and savings? We are not really party/drinking people, so by entertainment I mean concerts and eating out in a restaraunt couple times a week.

East Bay is an option open for consideration if SF is unrealistic, as long as it is a safe neighboorhood and it is close to BART for easy commute.

Thanks for your help.

[bmw335xi]

$150k for a couple very easy to do, don't worry. You can even live in the city if you are okay with living in a small place. Good luck

[rca215]

Of course, as I'm sure you know. Especially if you're okay with the East Bay and don't have much debt.

If $100K after taxes is accurate and you can keep rent around $3K per month, then you're talking $64K annually after tax/rent. Assume you splurge on another $3K per month on other expenses, then it's $28K in savings, or about 20% of gross wages. You'll be well ahead of most people in that situation.

I don't know the East Bay well, but $3K in rent seems very doable there. And it's somewhat feasible in SF too. Up it to $3,500 and your options are much greater. The dog will be the biggest challenge, especially if it's >30 pounds.

[dalparadise]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

$150k for a couple very easy to do, don't worry. You can even live in the city if you are okay with living in a small place. Good luck

Agreed. You'll be alright. It won't be lavish, but you can live pretty comfortably on that. You'll do even better if you're willing to commute in from Berkeley or Oakland. Plenty of nice areas in either of those cities for 20% less than SF, on average.

Your space requirements seem in line with what your budget will likely be. Be aware though, that your described parameters are the hottest category for rentals in the Bay Area in general, and SF in particular. Competition will be fierce.

Make a plan that will allow you to look for an apartment for up to four weeks. That will give you time to learn the game, be rejected, change your approach if necessary, and choose the place that's right. Many who grab the first thing they see end up unhappy. Then, it's very difficult and expensive to move.

I remember watching prices skyrocket for a few months before I was ready to sign a long-term lease. I nervously considered jumping on a few places that caught my eye, but would have been terrible mistakes down the road for a couple of different reasons. This is a market you'll need to study to make a good decision--you're paying mortgage-level rates in rent, so you should put almost as much consideration into your choice.

Learn about neighborhoods. Learn about commuting needs. Figure out what about the area appeals to you. though the City is small, you will find yourself gravitating toward your neighborhood for day-to-day things. This will make up your community. The retail, traffic, food, neighbors, condition of the buses/trains, even the weather can be a variable here within a few blocks.

Good luck and enjoy the Bay Area

[PixelatedTherapy]

Originally Posted by vop92

Hi everyone

Me and my GF are finishing graduate school and thinking about moving to San Francisco. We have some job prospects there plus both of us fell in love with that city, absolutely breathtaking place. The problem is, of course, affordability. We are expecting to make around 140-150k total as a start, which translates to ~100k after taxes. I read a lot of numbers, but the opinion of people who actually live there matters much more.

Can we make a middle-class living with this kind of money? By middle class I mean renting a decent 600-700 sq. ft. 1 bedroom dog-friendly apartment in a nice (not fancy, just nice) area, with some money left for entertainment, travel and savings? We are not really party/drinking people, so by entertainment I mean concerts and eating out in a restaraunt couple times a week.

East Bay is an option open for consideration if SF is unrealistic, as long as it is a safe neighboorhood and it is close to BART for easy commute.

Thanks for your help.

Move to a suburb or Oakland and visit San Francisco whenever you want without having to deal with the negatives of living in a clustered area filled with bad drivers rushing to work and tourists who seem to have little respect for their surroundings.

[CirclingLogan]

I'm part of a DINK couple in Oakland at $180k. We're paying off a substantial amount of debt rather quickly ($2,300/mo) and are still fine. Able to save, have a house cleaner, etc. Once the debt is paid off, we could move into SF rather easily but probably won't. Oakland is so sunny and the nice neighborhoods are incredibly pleasant, safe, quiet, but with trendy restaurants, bars, etc. It would be hard to move into the grungy Mission or Soma or foggy Marina.

[artemis78]

Ditto. We have two kids in daycare and a mortgage on that income and are still able to eat out, take vacations, live relatively comfortably, etc. It's not a lavish lifestyle, as a PP said, but it's more than do-able. The key is to keep your housing costs in check, and you will be much better able to do that in the East Bay (especially if you also need dog-friendly), so I would look that direction. Find a place under $3K and you will be fine. If all you need is a small 1BR place, spend even less than that--still very feasible in places like Oakland and Berkeley, though possibly not in SF--and put the rest into savings. Good luck!

[vop92]

Thank you all for replies. They were all helpful

I don't know the East Bay well, but $3K in rent seems very doable there. And it's somewhat feasible in SF too. Up it to $3,500 and your options are much greater. The dog will be the biggest challenge, especially if it's >30 pounds.

How so? I thought SF is pretty dog-friendly. Are the pet fees expensive or landlords generally don't like them?

Learn about neighborhoods. Learn about commuting needs. Figure out what about the area appeals to you. though the City is small, you will find yourself gravitating toward your neighborhood for day-to-day things. This will make up your community. The retail, traffic, food, neighbors, condition of the buses/trains, even the weather can be a variable here within a few blocks.

How about parking? Both of us have cars. We don't plan to use them much if we live in SF, but still you have to leave them somewhere. Is it easy to park on the street within a block or two from your apartment?

You'll do even better if you're willing to commute in from Berkeley or Oakland. Plenty of nice areas in either of those cities for 20% less than SF, on average.

As long as BART is within walking distance it is not a problem. Which parts of Oakland and Berkeley are good? And more importantly, which parts to avoid?

I'm part of a DINK couple in Oakland at $180k. We're paying off a substantial amount of debt rather quickly ($2,300/mo) and are still fine. Able to save, have a house cleaner, etc. Once the debt is paid off, we could move into SF rather easily but probably won't. Oakland is so sunny and the nice neighborhoods are incredibly pleasant, safe, quiet, but with trendy restaurants, bars, etc. It would be hard to move into the grungy Mission or Soma or foggy Marina.

Same question to you.

Ditto. We have two kids in daycare and a mortgage on that income and are still able to eat out, take vacations, live relatively comfortably, etc. It's not a lavish lifestyle, as a PP said, but it's more than do-able. The key is to keep your housing costs in check, and you will be much better able to do that in the East Bay (especially if you also need dog-friendly), so I would look that direction. Find a place under $3K and you will be fine. If all you need is a small 1BR place, spend even less than that--still very feasible in places like Oakland and Berkeley, though possibly not in SF--and put the rest into savings. Good luck!

Lavish lifestyle was never a priority. The goal is to live somewhere where you don't spend much time at home in the first place.

[CirclingLogan]

Originally Posted by vop92

As long as BART is within walking distance it is not a problem. Which parts of Oakland and Berkeley are good? And more importantly, which parts to avoid?

I don't know Berkeley that well and don't particularly like it. It seems to be mostly older retirees and college students. Also, outside of the few new buildings, a lot of the apartment stock is middling because of the students.

Oakland:

I won't bother listing neighborhoods that don't have a substantial amount of apartments.

Top-tier: Rockridge, Piedmont Ave, Lakeshore, Grand Lake
Second-tier: Jack London Square, Uptown, Temescal, Adam's Point, Cleveland Heights (along the lake)
Developing: Longfellow, East Lake, Downtown, Old Oakland, Lakeside, Chinatown, Fruitvale

Your mileage will vary on the remaining neighborhoods.

All these neighborhoods are either near BART or have a good Transbay commuter bus for professionals that is actually nicer and more convenient than BART. You tend to find better deals and less competition away from BART. Most newcomers are unaware of the Transbay bus.

[rca215]

Originally Posted by vop92

How so? I thought SF is pretty dog-friendly. Are the pet fees expensive or landlords generally don't like them?

SF is generally quite dog friendly...assuming you can find somewhere for Fido to live.

It's not a perfect analysis, but I just checked Craigslist for SF. There were a total of 2,283 apartments listed. When I hit the dog-friendly filter, it went to 723, so about 32% of them. Worse, when putting the max monthly price at $3,500, it went down to 253 listings. That includes apartments across the city, many of which in places not great for commuting by public transportation or in the dodgier neighborhoods. I would also guess based on personal experience that the majority of those are for small dogs (but another caveat that some, but not many, apartments are dog friendly without showing up in the dog-friendly filter.)

Beyond apartments, which of course is a huge aspect, the city is pretty good with dogs. They're welcome at a good number of establishments and of course the beaches/parks are generally great for dogs. That said, I'm not sure how much my dog would like living in some of the more popular neighborhoods that don't have great access to the bigger parks and beaches and tend to be concrete as far as the eye can see. My lab wants space and running between blankets at filthy Dolores Park would not be her cup of tea.

I don't know much about the East Bay, so I can't comment about dog friendliness there.

Oh, forgot to mention that some landlords that do allow dogs will charge additional pet rent. I've never had it, but I think it's usually $25-50 per month. More common is asking for a higher deposit (also never had that in SF), but I think the maximum allowed by law is 2 months.