General relocation aka can we afford to live there question (San Francisco: apartment, rental)

[ryanms3030]

Originally Posted by jade408

I think logistics wise, it is better for you to leave the car with your wife and not drive to BART, but transit on the outskirts isn't really better than LA.

Sounds like you have good career path potential. The Bay Area is only getting more and more expensive these days!

Thanks. And LA is getting more and more expensive and at a much faster rate than my annual raises at the current job can keep up with. Buy that seems to be the same in most desirable places. Vancouver, Seattle, even Denver are all getting much more expensive very quickly at least as far as housing goes. And I use those examples because they are all areas I have been applying for jobs and had some interest from recruiters. But I know SF takes the cake in housing expenses. Unfortunately we could never bring ourselves to live in Houston or one of the many places where salary to housing costs works in your favor

[ryanms3030]

Originally Posted by sav858

When you have little to no debt ($19K for a car isn't bad), don't have to pay for childcare, and live like you then you can stretch $120K farther than other people. A lot of people on this forum that don't have kids over estimate what you need to make imo.

If you were working in downtown SF the commute isn't bad as it's usually one-seat ride but you're on the other side of SF which probably doubles your commute time.

Yes people with no kids underestimate cost of child care. Relatively cheap daycare here runs $800/mo. And you get what you pay for and I'd rather have us raise our kid than strangers. And then you see horror show news stories about what some people do to kids in day care.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by sav858

I know but you don't think people, especially those that already have kids, don't take all of this into account? Some of you make too many assumptions about other people's expenses as if they aren't aware of that or something. Most of those costs are the same between LA and the Bay Area, the biggest variable is rent. Not having to pay for child care saves A LOT of money, trust me.

I think that sometimes people think a salary increase will mean a significant upgrade in quality of life. I think that if your idea of middle class suburbia is "older" you'll be in for a big surprise which is why I mention a higher salary. In today's universe if your space expectations are a room for each kid, a home office or buying, it helps to be more realistic. I think most families won't be happy for long in a two bedroom, so obviously that higher salary gets you closer.

It is also helpful to set proper expectations around home age and the like. There is a lot newer housing stock in SoCal than here! For some people that is pretty critical. On the whole QOL, if measured in home size, home newness, commute time and school quality, it is a lot worse than you expect.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by ryanms3030

Yes people with no kids underestimate cost of child care. Relatively cheap daycare here runs $800/mo. And you get what you pay for and I'd rather have us raise our kid than strangers. And then you see horror show news stories about what some people do to kids in day care.

My friends pay$1600+ around here (my Silicon Valley friends), so that is the number I have in my head. I have no clue what costs are in Contra Costa County. A decade ago my coworker's wife ran a pretty good day care in a middle middle class city and it was $1000, so I assume that is a lot more these days.

[wideworld]

If you want to create a half-decent life for you and your family in SF, you have to aim higher than $120k. I'm very careful with my money but don't pinch every penny (I shop grocery sales but also enjoy a meal out with friends or coworkers a few times a week, etc.), and that salary is tough even for single people living in modest apartments (not the brand new, granite/SS/etc units). With roommates, it's another story.

$150k is the lowest I would accept in your situation. Another important thing to keep in mind is that salaries increase most when you job-hop, so if you plan on staying at the same company for several years, aim even higher. (An exception would be if you're in an profession with large bonuses.)

Good luck with everything!

[sav858]

Originally Posted by jade408

My friends pay$1600+ around here (my Silicon Valley friends), so that is the number I have in my head. I have no clue what costs are in Contra Costa County. A decade ago my coworker's wife ran a pretty good day care in a middle middle class city and it was $1000, so I assume that is a lot more these days.

Is that just for one kid? We have two and pay around that much for a nanny.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by jade408

I think that sometimes people think a salary increase will mean a significant upgrade in quality of life. I think that if your idea of middle class suburbia is "older" you'll be in for a big surprise which is why I mention a higher salary. In today's universe if your space expectations are a room for each kid, a home office or buying, it helps to be more realistic. I think most families won't be happy for long in a two bedroom, so obviously that higher salary gets you closer.

It is also helpful to set proper expectations around home age and the like. There is a lot newer housing stock in SoCal than here! For some people that is pretty critical. On the whole QOL, if measured in home size, home newness, commute time and school quality, it is a lot worse than you expect.

Doesn't seem like the OP is looking for an upgrade overall that much in QOL just maybe in the preference for the Bay Area over LA. They want better public schools but they're in the city of LA so that's pretty hard to find for even the wealthy.

If you want to rent a 2/2 apartment it's a lot easier than buying into a place with good schools (a lot of people do that in WC just for the schools), if buying a SFH then I would more agree with the 200K figure. I agree a 2/2 apt or condo long term is not ideal as well, especially if you have more than 1 kid. The OP didn't ask that which is why I didn't bring it up. If that is his long term goal then yes I would think about earning potential and if the wife can go back to work once their kid/kids are school age.

The newer housing stock in SoCal tends to be in the distant suburbs/exurbs though so a crappy commute. Though the commute from the outer East Bay (PH/WC) is probably just as bad to the Presido/Richmond area in SF time wise.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by sav858

Is that just for one kid? We have two and pay around that much for a nanny.

Yup! One has a one year old and that contributes to the high cost. But there is also serious south bay surcharge. It sucks! No cheap options at all that fit in on their work commutes. Another friend will have a second one soon and she is not looking forward to day care costs. It'll still be well over $2000.

You save a bit on our side of the bay in that regard. Saw this the other day!

[ryanms3030]

Originally Posted by sav858

Doesn't seem like the OP is looking for an upgrade overall that much in QOL just maybe in the preference for the Bay Area over LA. They want better public schools but they're in the city of LA so that's pretty hard to find for even the wealthy.

If you want to rent a 2/2 apartment it's a lot easier than buying into a place with good schools (a lot of people do that in WC just for the schools), if buying a SFH then I would more agree with the 200K figure. I agree a 2/2 apt or condo long term is not ideal as well, especially if you have more than 1 kid. The OP didn't ask that which is why I didn't bring it up. If that is his long term goal then yes I would think about earning potential and if the wife can go back to work once their kid/kids are school age.

The newer housing stock in SoCal tends to be in the distant suburbs/exurbs though so a crappy commute. Though the commute from the outer East Bay (PH/WC) is probably just as bad to the Presido/Richmond area in SF time wise.

You are correct. Not really looking to upgrade QOL, just maintain. But maintain also means continue to be able to save for college, retirement etc. And yes the main upgrade to QOL would be living someplace where we can eventually send our kid to public school. Where we are now, most people who care about their kid's education are doing private school for $20k/year which is out of our reach.

2/2 apartment is fine for us and we don't plan on having more kids. The main issue with apartments is prices can keep going up. But where we live now, a starter 2 bedroom house close to work would cost $700k which is out of my budget. A decent starter home in an area with decent schools would be around $400k and a 90 minute commute each way and even that is pushing it on my current budget. Wife will probably go back to work when kid is in school but her earning potential isn't that high and after 5 years away from working we're expecting something like retail job for her or equivalent which will help but not be a second income.

But thanks again everyone. I think I would realistically need $150k minimum to make the move worthwhile also with the consideration that was mentioned that once you a job you don't get many salary increases these days.

[MountainHi]

Originally Posted by bodyforlife99

No commute at all!!

Check out the Baker Beach 2 BR ($2960)

The Presidio Residences Apartments - San Francisco, CA 94129 | Apartments for Rent

But I just noticed only 1 bathroom (pick your poison). I'd go with no commute myself.

I'm with this. If you're ok with a 2 br/1 ba., you'll be able to find something in the Richmond and the Presidio. If you check the listings, you'll see that there are a number of offerings in your range, some with amenities like a garden or fireplace. I see no need for you to torture yourself with a long commute.