Which Marin Town? or Piedmont? (San Francisco, Oakland: low income, section 8, foreclosures)

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by entrepreneursf

Thank you guys for all your thoughts and opinions, it's much appreciated!

We're originally from Texas, Dallas to be exact, and it never resonated with me. The values of the city (money, what you own and how you look) and the religious social conservatives preaching about going to church was a real turnoff to the both of us. There are of course great people in Dallas, lots of great friends and my family is there but we don't want to raise kids in a place where the values of the city aren't congruent with our personal values.

I enjoy visiting the Metroplex, but I wouldn't want to live there . If I had to, I would choose NE Tarrant County (probably Colleyville near the border with Bedford....love mature trees ).

Those religious social conservatives aren't always practicing what they preach either . The Bay Area is not immune to this hypocrisy either. Re attendance, I've only very, very rarely seen someone be nosy or intrusive about church attendance, and in those cases it would only be among various members of a family.

The only superficial values that Marin might share a BIT with the more affluent parts of Dallas, IMO, would be re automobiles. IIRC, Marin still has more BMWs per capita than any county in the country. I remember riding with one of my little relatives, her friend, and the friend's mother in the mother's Land Rover. The mother said 'you don't want to be seen in a Land Rover that is over two years old'. However, that woman is not from Marin. She's a single mom from a wealthy East Coast family, and has her own 'issues'.

It's really encouraging to read the positive posts about Marin, deep down we are both rooting for Marin but want to be objective about our decision.

I think you should also look at the recent Mill Valley vs. Piedmont thread, particularly jade408's posts on that thread. At least one (and usually more than one) household within my family lived in Piedmont for 50 years. If one adds the two areas jade mentions (Trestle Glen and Crocker Highlands) as well as a couple of others that are also literally a few blocks from Piedmont, add another 36 years onto that 50 years. If the tech talent issue nudges you to choose the East Bay, you could buy a nice place in Trestle Glen, send your kids to private Head-Royce (other posters will let us know if this is realistic re peak traffic patterns and road construction ), and still be able to run around the lake. You'd also be able to hop on BART fairly easily to explore other areas without having to drive. The only caveat I can think of re this option is the drivers on Snake Rd, Skyline Blvd, etc. aren't as courteous (IME) to cyclists as Marinites are to cyclists on HWY 1, etc.

RMESMH - where do your family send their kids to school? Do they go to the public schools or private schools?

One side of my family is Catholic, and the other side is a spiritual (or lack thereof)/religious mix of Episcopalians, Baptists, Congregationalists, Agnostics, and Atheists. So, the school choices have varied. In Marin, all of the households are very recent or fairly recent empty nesters except for three. One household....they don't have kids yet, but I imagine when they do they will go public....elementary, etc. which will feed into Redwood High School. The other two households are in Mill Valley...one, the kids go to Marin Catholic High School...the other, public school in Mill Valley (except for a well regarded and fairly expensive private preschool). The aforementioned empty nesters had kids go through the the K-8 public schools in Novato, Ross, Kentfield, and Mill Valley. Those kids later graduated from Branson (private), Tam (Tamalpais High), Redwood High, Novato High, and San Marin High before all heading off to various universities.

In the East Bay, if you choose Trestle Glen or another Oakland neighborhood close to the lake, the private schools that come to mind are CPS and Head-Royce. I have found that Head-Royce grads that I have known over the course of my life are, on average, more well adjusted human beings and get along with others a little better than the CPS grads I've known. Just my own experience....and I'm not a Head-Royce alum.

When people here refer to the "upper crust" of Marin, what does that mean exactly? Old money?

I'll leave a more fleshed out definition (than has already been given) to the native Marinites .

Would Ross and Kentfield be considered the most insular? (Generalizing here)

Yes. I would also add Belvedere to that list.

[jade408]

I have met quite a few Oakland private school adults from Head Royce and I agree. I find that being surrounded by too much affluence can make you less well adjusted when it comes time to visit the real world. I did not go to high school I'm the Bay Area. I also find that this is true for many native Oaklanders as well.

[Ruth4Truth]

I wouldn't recommend Head-Royce, especially for kids who are creative, outside-the-box type of kids, and who are down-to-earth types. The Head-Royce atmosphere is very straight-laced, and kids can be snooty. There also tend to be at least a couple of kids from Piedmont in each class, and for some reason, they're very cliquish and tend to bully other kids. And I'm talking about the girls, I don't know about the boys.

There are other private schools in the area that are just as good academically, but have a better social atmosphere than H-R.

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

I wouldn't recommend Head-Royce, especially for kids who are creative, outside-the-box type of kids, and who are down-to-earth types. The Head-Royce atmosphere is very straight-laced, and kids can be snooty.

Must have changed and headed in that direction then. The two most recent in my experience were both women, and they definitely were outside-the-box quirky types.

[There also tend to be at least a couple of kids from Piedmont in each class, and for some reason, they're very cliquish

And I'm talking about the girls

Sadly, this hasn't changed since at least the early 1930s. I'm a guy, but I don't have any sisters, so I've heard all the trips down memory lane. I've also dated a few women who were raised in Piedmont. As much as Piedmont is an integral part of many of the women in my family in some very positive ways, there are enough negatives that go along with that atmosphere that I'm glad I didn't marry any of the women I dated who were raised in Piedmont. Piedmont is a unique bubble. I'm a first generation Lamorinda native. Lamorinda is also a unique bubble, but generally less straight-laced than Piedmont. I had to add 'generally' because there is another bubble (not as strong as it once was) of 'Piedmont Lamorindans' (Lamorindans whose families = originally from Piedmont). That bubble is a 'whole 'nother kettle of fish' .

I suggested Trestle Glen to the OP because it is has the convenience for running around the lake that would work for the OP (jade beat me to it on typing that thought), and because she might find Piedmont a bit stifling .

As wonderful as Mill Valley is, it is also a unique bubble. IMO, to the credit of quite a few of the public school teachers and parents, they realize this and try to 'puncture the bubble' as best they can.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Actually, Mill Valley had a very nice Chinese restaurant until a few years ago. The owners moved to a different part of the North Bay. But why do you mention Asian food, anyway?

What I wrote is not difficult to understand. Considering the demographic of Marin, one cannot expect the Asian food or other ethnic foods to be very authentic. They have been tailored to WASP / white Jewish tastes. Take the typical Marinite and tell them to head over the Bridge to Richmond, ending up at some place like Pacific East. They would experience culture shock and if they were brave enough to eat at a place there, they may find the food quite unfamiliar to their normal understanding of Asian food.

[Ultrarunner]

Two very different areas and culture.

I've never felt comfortable in Marin proper.

Have friends that live there and have met some of their neighbors... they always felt sorry for me living in the East Bay.

Also have friends in Piedmont... never had the same vibe.

Piedmont has a lot of things going for it... just remember it also has 15 mph speed limits in some neighborhoods and going 30 is double the speed limit with all kinds of problems from someone I know.

There is also Piedmont Pines, Montclair... just about something for everybody...

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by RMESMH

Must have changed and headed in that direction then. The two most recent in my experience were both women, and they definitely were outside-the-box quirky types..

Good post, overall. So, how did these women like their experience at H-R? Just curious. It can make some difference what class one is in. Maybe they got lucky.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly

What I wrote is not difficult to understand. Considering the demographic of Marin, one cannot expect the Asian food or other ethnic foods to be very authentic. They have been tailored to WASP / white Jewish tastes. Take the typical Marinite and tell them to head over the Bridge to Richmond, ending up at some place like Pacific East. They would experience culture shock and if they were brave enough to eat at a place there, they may find the food quite unfamiliar to their normal understanding of Asian food.

Oh? What kind of food does Pacific East have? I'm curious. Sure, there's all kinds of Asian food. There are the infamous back rooms in the Chinatown restaurants, that serve the real deal, dishes most non-Chinese don't want to know about. But this is a whole other conversation. Speaking of Chinese food, I consider a restaurant "good" if it attracts scads of Chinese students. It doesn't have to offer unmentionables on the menu, it just has to be good quality. Restaurants in Taiwan aren't Westernized, and the Taiwanese restaurants in the US serve much of the the same stuff, without altering the recipes.

But, whatever. I'm intrigues about the Richmond restaurant, now. In a good way.

[KatieDent]

Mill Valley, Ross, or Piedmont fit your criteria perfectly! They are close knit, academic, cultured, and very family oriented. Piedmont is better for access to SF as the GG bridge is tough commute out to Marin. The schools are top notch with excellent private schools as well in all those areas. I would stay out of Oakland except for Montclair (if you are going to go Private School).
I grew up in SF and the East Bay. Also lived in Larkspur for many years. I help home buyers everyday find their perfect lifestyle in the Bay Area. I'd be happy to assist you with any info you need.

[Ultrarunner]

Oakland is experiencing tremendous appreciation and has all manner of public transportation...

The only way to think of Oakland is a collection of individual neighborhoods...

I've owned homes all around the East Bay and always come back to Oakland.

What I find particurly striking is those I know well that live in the "Better" Bay Area Communities like Alamo, Danville, Ross, Kensington all have kids choosing to live in Oakland... their parents are having a hard time with this as many grew up in Oakland or had Grandparents that did.

One young lady that lives in works in Oakland as a congressional aid had parents that grew up in Oakland and later moved to Pleasanton where she grew up...

To this day... she can't forgive them for selling her grandparents home in Rockridge for a pittance in 2008... she was 17 at the time and her parents said there is no way she was going to live in Oakland... now she is 25 and lives lives near Jack London Square.