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Old 07-01-2016, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto, CA
901 posts, read 981,375 times
Reputation: 1168

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikkasf View Post
I don't think NYC/NJ is a bargain tax & fee wise compared to this area. I think OP is likely able to calculate things on her own in regard living expenses. Some time spent on Craiglist & other sites like Hotpads will her and her husband a idea of rental costs
In NY state suburbs and NJ, there is a "middle tier" that does not exist in the Bay Area at all within reasonable commuting distance of either San Francisco or Silicon Valley: suburbs where you can get a decent, not luxurious home on a decent street, in decent condition, (rent or buy) with decent/solid but not mind blowing schools, that have school buses, that don't fundraise constantly, and spend 30% to 50% to less to buy than comparable 2nd tier suburbs in the Bay Area. The additional property taxes you pay there do not make up for the lower sale prices compared to here (lower property taxes here, higher sales prices). I.e., I think NJ and NY have a significantly larger number of semi-affordable or truly affordable suburban areas where a family can live.

For hip younger people looking for cool city living, ok, NYC is similar to SF, though again because it is bigger it has more place to look, more areas on the margins.

In SF area, there is Concord (the current 'good value' distant but commutable burb with rail with some good schools) - in NYC area there are like 10 or 20 Concords.
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Old 07-01-2016, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Planet Earth
677 posts, read 747,972 times
Reputation: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMac18 View Post
Generally, costs for many things here are more than they are in other areas of the country. But, the OP is coming from NY/NJ, one of the highest taxed regions of the country. I think most costs here are very comparable to NY/NJ, some things might be a little more, but compared to the increase in housing costs it'll look like peanuts.


Also, just an aside, I'd like to add that food, especially fresh food/produce, is pretty cheap here compared to the East Coast. And you're getting much higher quality for less money. Maybe if you do all of your shopping at Safeway, things aren't much cheaper...but there are much cheaper (and fresher) ways to get your food here, especially in the city of SF where every neighborhood has a few produce markets.

Eating out isn't really all that different in costs compared to NY/NJ, either. And I'd argue that the Bay Area destroys most metros in the 8-20 dollar range (which is probably where 95% of my meals out are, generally closer to 8 than 20).



At the end of the day, rent is really the only cost increase to be worried about. If one can make that work, all else will be manageable (some costs higher, some lower).
Not sure if it's changed since, but when I lived in NJ, there was no sales tax on clothing and shoes, my annual car registration was like $20 because it was not based upon the value of the car (in CA it's several hundred dollars annually), gas prices in NJ are some of the cheapest nationwide whereas it's the most expensive in CA, milk was a lot cheaper in NJ, too. It seems in CA there's taxes and fees on everything. Heck, even traffic tickets in NJ was a lot less.

BTW, the cost of the land and housing/rent raises the price of everything in CA because it costs businesses so much more to lease a building, lot, restaurant, store, etc. which increases businesses' operating costs which in turn gets passed on to the customer.

Also, the supermarkets in NJ used to double the value of my coupons, which they don't do here in CA.
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Old 07-01-2016, 07:46 PM
 
10,926 posts, read 5,845,734 times
Reputation: 4917
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatCurve View Post
Not sure if it's changed since, but when I lived in NJ, there was no sales tax on clothing and shoes, my annual car registration was like $20 because it was not based upon the value of the car (in CA it's several hundred dollars annually), gas prices in NJ are some of the cheapest nationwide whereas it's the most expensive in CA, milk was a lot cheaper in NJ, too. It seems in CA there's taxes and fees on everything. Heck, even traffic tickets in NJ was a lot less.

BTW, the cost of the land and housing/rent raises the price of everything in CA because it costs businesses so much more to lease a building, lot, restaurant, store, etc. which increases businesses' operating costs which in turn gets passed on to the customer.

Also, the supermarkets in NJ used to double the value of my coupons, which they don't do here in CA.
When I moved from NY to here, my monthly grocery bill definitely went down. Maybe a few things are more (such as milk? Although I don't drink it, so wouldn't know), but most things were cheaper (especially the produce). I also went from shopping at big groceries, such as Wegmans, to shopping at local produce stores (with a bi-weekly trip to Trader Joes for some stuff). Not sure what to tell you...

There are some costs that I had in NY that I don't have here. Monthly electric bill was higher in NY due to heating and AC (don't have AC here, and don't use heat even though I could if I needed to). I can bike year round here, so my commute costs dropped considerably (yes, even despite the fact that gas is more here - although while we're on that topic, gas here isn't that much cheaper than NY - interesting that NJ's is so low, as you say).

Sure, CA has some other things that are higher. I won't deny that. My point isn't that CA doesn't come with an increase in cost, just that these things you mention are really minor in the overall picture - some things might be cheaper here (especially since some costs don't even exist here), and some things might be more - but one's overall change in these costs will possibly be very minor.

At the end of the day, these things are pocket change compared to the single biggest thing that one needs to worry about here: housing. If you can take care of housing, and do it somewhat comfortably, these other things really are a wash. And I'd say the improvement to QOL can more than make up for an increase in these non-housing costs.


As an aside, I have a friend in NJ, by the way, that constantly complains about his taxes - so it's not like NJ/NY are some tax-free utopias. NY and NJ are probably very close to CA in terms of overall tax burden.
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Old 07-01-2016, 10:25 PM
 
Location: America's Expensive Toilet
1,428 posts, read 998,949 times
Reputation: 3052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girlinacafe View Post
Not because of the high rents, but because of the people, they have morphed into something I don't recognize as a native New Yorker.

We are average people, who live an average life, we work hard and work a lot, so as a teacher I don't mind working all day then teaching night classes. My husband works all day and works side jobs. Moving to SF would change our quality of life, and the cost of living is almost the same from the area we currently live. I thank you for your insight.
So... when will you have the time to enjoy California?
Property taxes will be lower, but you won't be able to buy. Also, the people here are much the same as in NYC, and in many ways worse. At least New Yorkers call out bad behavior.

I agree with Chuck5000 for the most part.
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Old 07-02-2016, 07:41 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
59 posts, read 40,329 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by daepro View Post
I am a NY transplant who came here in 2008! My wife and I made it work. Our daughter is a school teacher and she has made it comfortably happen as well. Timing is everything prices were lower then, but I still feel that if you have the strong passion to move do not let practical circumstances change your mind. It may initially be a financial struggle for sure however if this is want you want to do I hope you two decide to take the plunge. Trust that it will work out in the end.
That is exactly my take on the situation. If we want to make it work it will. And I the initial move will be a struggle, but I also know once we are there and make friends and contacts our living arrangements will get better and so will the extra work in teaching I so love to do will increase. Thank you for the encouragement.
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Old 07-02-2016, 07:44 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
59 posts, read 40,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
Rent is cheaper in the Outer Sunset. I'm assuming your household will pull in around $130k - $150k a year. Since you didn't mention any kids, I'm guessing a one-bedroom is suffice. so around $2000 will get you into a unit in the Outer Sunset. That's not bad in terms of rent to income. Just note that the Sunset are mostly single family homes, so often these smaller 1 bedroom units are in-law units.

For more affordable options, you can also check out Excelsior, Visitation Valley, Crocker Amazon. There are also towns just outside of SF like Daly City, Brisbane, South San Francisco, Oakland, etc; whose rent is comparable (or cheaper) than the Outer Sunset.

Good luck!
.
We were considering Daly City as well, thank you for the other recommendations. No, no kids, just me, my husband and a small doggie. We expect to initially bring in $130k and increase it over a years time.

Kindly,
Beth
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Old 07-02-2016, 07:53 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
59 posts, read 40,329 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
In addition to the Sunset, consider also the Richmond (Inner, Outer), which is similar to the Sunset, just on the other side of GG Park. Pacifica is also a good option, with rents there not likely to rise as fast as in SF.

I'm curious to see how this adventure works out. Please post an update after you get moved and settled in, OP. Good luck!
It's going to take a year before we move, that is why I have started my research now. Also, getting all my certifications in order to teach. Thank you of the leads on the other locations. I for sure do not want to live in the middle of SF, if I wanted that I'd go back to NYC. Will definitely let everyone know how it turns out. Thanks again for your comments.
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Old 07-02-2016, 07:57 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
59 posts, read 40,329 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck5000 View Post
I really don't understand what you're saying here; I sense some "California dreaming" going on. I do not think that your quality of life will improve at all, except for the lack of very low winter temperatures and the occasional trip to a nature preserve. SF is being filled up with the same people as NYC (which I think is actually becoming better re: people, so we disagree on that).

Overall I think the bad is going to outweigh the good, unless you heavily weigh those two above things AND will earn 150k+ between the two of you, or if you already have substantial savings/family wealth.

However, since you don't have kids, the stakes are pretty low right now. Having kids in the Bay Area dramatically raises the stakes financially even from the level that we're already talking about in this thread.

Go look on sfbay.craigslist.org and see how much rentals cost. The landlord will take 10 or more applications, and probably choose the one with the highest income. You will have to get lucky.
Im a realist. I have just begun my research and once I know how the systems runs, I know how to make it work for me. Craigslist has it's good a bad points, you can only get lucky with an apartment there. There are other ways to getting a good apt in SF. Im optimistic.
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Old 07-02-2016, 08:06 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
59 posts, read 40,329 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeymac18 View Post
generally, costs for many things here are more than they are in other areas of the country. But, the op is coming from ny/nj, one of the highest taxed regions of the country. I think most costs here are very comparable to ny/nj, some things might be a little more, but compared to the increase in housing costs it'll look like peanuts.


Also, just an aside, i'd like to add that food, especially fresh food/produce, is pretty cheap here compared to the east coast. And you're getting much higher quality for less money. Maybe if you do all of your shopping at safeway, things aren't much cheaper...but there are much cheaper (and fresher) ways to get your food here, especially in the city of sf where every neighborhood has a few produce markets.

Eating out isn't really all that different in costs compared to ny/nj, either. And i'd argue that the bay area destroys most metros in the 8-20 dollar range (which is probably where 95% of my meals out are, generally closer to 8 than 20).



At the end of the day, rent is really the only cost increase to be worried about. If one can make that work, all else will be manageable (some costs higher, some lower).
thank you!
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Old 07-02-2016, 08:57 AM
 
3,827 posts, read 2,269,852 times
Reputation: 11180
OP with all due respect it seems you are only interested in hearing the positives that tip the scale in favor of relocating, and not considering any negatives people are bringing up. I know someone who has been financially ruined despite "thinking" he had the earnings to cover all the costs of living in SF but the reality of daily living proved otherwise. His nest egg for retirement has been wiped out and he's not a big spender generally although his one fatal flaw was insisting on living in SF proper.

So, just don't be so ready to dismiss the comments from residents who don't paint a rosy picture.
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