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Old 09-02-2016, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Sequoia Heights, Oakland, CA
406 posts, read 287,743 times
Reputation: 416

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Roleplay for a moment if you actually want to prove your head isn't stuck in the sand (pretend you are a Trump Republican).

Explain why Trump and Republicans would be better for the country.

If you do this, I will explain why Hillary and Democrats would be better for the country.
First and foremost, the burden of proof is on you. So why don't you go first?

You haven't demonstrated the capacity to substantiate any of your assertions, which means you can't even debate your own side.

What's better for the country depends on the person. For you, it's Trump and republicans, since you are a subscriber of bigotry and racial animosity.

Last edited by the happy guy; 09-02-2016 at 05:49 PM..

 
Old 09-02-2016, 06:08 PM
 
Location: On the water.
21,668 posts, read 16,206,395 times
Reputation: 19760
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Roleplay for a moment if you actually want to prove your head isn't stuck in the sand (pretend you are a Trump Republican).

Explain why Trump and Republicans would be better for the country.

If you do this, I will explain why Hillary and Democrats would be better for the country.

---

Showing you can effectively debate in defense of the other side is the easiest way to prove someone isn't brainwashed or stuck in the sand. It doesn't mean you actually agree with it, but you at least understand it.

Most people these days cannot do this. Extreme Republicans will say, "Oh because Hillary will help give us everything for free, so we can watch old re-runs on Oprah all day while the lazy wealthy people pay more taxes to support us" Extreme Liberals will say, "Oh because Trump wants to kick out all poor people and/or non-Whites because we want America to be great again"

So if you want to take the challenge, please explain why Trump and Republicans in general would better our country more and if you can actually prove to me you aren't brainwashed, I will do the same about Hillary and Democrats to prove myself as well.
WTF are you talking about? There are NO ways in which Trump would be better for America. Why would I, or anybody "role play" otherwise?

Listen, I challenged you to show me a single instance in which I have ever failed to back up anything I post with facts and where I might have ever failed in logic. You haven't done so because you can't. I have also challenged you countless times to back up your blathering opinionations with factual, data-based logic. You don't.

Now you jump to "role playing" games? Role play some facts, bub.
 
Old 09-02-2016, 06:10 PM
 
Location: On the water.
21,668 posts, read 16,206,395 times
Reputation: 19760
Quote:
Originally Posted by the happy guy View Post
FYI, a community isn't going to forfeit fair treatment and civil rights just because it has crime.

One

In New York City, violent crime peaked in 1990, and began to decline three years before Giuliani took office. In fact, the decline in violent crime reflected a national trend. I know you like simple solutions to complex issues, but crime rates act independently of incarceration rates. Interestingly, the rise and fall of violent crime is associated with the rise and fall of childhood lead exposure.

Environmental Policy as Social Policy? The Impact of Childhood Lead Exposure on Crime

Ironically, in 1992, Giuliani egged on violent protests and bridge blockades from thousands of off duty cops in New York City.

Officers Rally And Dinkins Is Their Target - NYTimes.com

Two

Yes, crime is undesirable, unfortunate, and a concern. The root of crime isn't located in black skin, but rather socio-economic factors. If black people were predisposed to violence, we would expect poor blacks to have similar victimization rates as high income blacks, and substantially higher victimization rates than poor whites. Neither is the case.

Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Household Poverty and Nonfatal Violent Victimization, 2008–2012

Most violent crime is intra-racial because it is driven by proximity and opportunity. White people are more likely to live near other white people, school with other white people, and interact with other white people. Hence, 84% of white victims are killed by whites. Not to mention, they are more likely to assault, rape, and rob other white people. (ditto for black people). Yet, there is discussion about white on white crime. No such term exists.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publicatio...aspx?ID=243356

The term black on black crime is a misnomer that intends to associate criminality, dysfunction, and abnormality to African Americans, because it seeks to locate the issue of crime to cultural pathology, rather than something solvable by political action. It is often used to deflect legitimate grievances about racism.

epitomized by the man with no reflection, himself:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e8e16c611e17

Three

Black Lives Matter is an organization that protests police brutality and racial discrimination in the criminal justice system. This isn't necessarily separate from confronting issues of urban crime because a demand or plea for better and ethical policing practices functions to build trust, morale and accountability, which improves cooperation, participation, and partnership between communities and law enforcement to help address issues with crime.

Black Lives Matter isn't an anti-cop movement either. Critiquing what may be inappropriate behavior/actions and violations of civil rights committed by cops, and challenging the impunity enjoyed by cops, is not anti-cop. A demand for justice, accountability, fair treatment within the criminal justice system is not anti-cop.

It's cringeworthy to suggest African Americans do not have reason, urgency, or the right to protest police brutality and racial discrimination in the criminal justice system.
Brilliant post here, btw, Happy.

bmw? Are you taking notes?
 
Old 09-02-2016, 07:14 PM
 
24,352 posts, read 26,826,712 times
Reputation: 19827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
WTF are you talking about? There are NO ways in which Trump would be better for America. Why would I, or anybody "role play" otherwise?

Listen, I challenged you to show me a single instance in which I have ever failed to back up anything I post with facts and where I might have ever failed in logic. You haven't done so because you can't. I have also challenged you countless times to back up your blathering opinionations with factual, data-based logic. You don't.

Now you jump to "role playing" games? Role play some facts, bub.
Exactly what I thought, so caught up in your own thinking that you cannot even understand the opposing view. There is no point in me digging up facts and wasting time if someone is brainwashed. If you could show me you clearly understand why Trump supporters support him, then I wouldn't mind pulling up some figures for you, but if someone has their head in the sand, there is no point.

I can pretend I'm a Hillary supporter and easily debate a Trump supporter any day, even though I don't agree, I understand why Hillary supporters or Democrats in general believe in what they do.
 
Old 09-02-2016, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Carpinteria
1,199 posts, read 1,642,281 times
Reputation: 1184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Listen, I challenged you to show me a single instance in which I have ever failed to back up anything I post with facts and where I might have ever failed in logic.
 
Old 09-02-2016, 07:21 PM
 
397 posts, read 363,159 times
Reputation: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMESMH View Post
Wow. I would suggest you do some research about the Church of England. You might then have a better understanding. One big difference is that there is a huge difference between interfere and influence.



What relevance does this have to my reply? Answer: NONE....for at least 3 reasons (in no particular order):

1. The last 'founder' died well over 100 years before the 1950's.

2. Kap sits through "The Star-Spangled Banner". The words "Under god" were added in the 1950s to the "Pledge of Allegiance", NOT "The Star-Spangled Banner".

3. Given that this has no relevance re my reply, I imagine that you think I'm a 'god person' because my views in general are to the right of yours. Nope. I'm Agnostic.
It's perfectly fine you want to distinguish the difference. I don't really care either way.

My angle would be conservatives keeps trying to push THEIR religion into government while not letting the muslims even have a mosque.
 
Old 09-02-2016, 07:23 PM
 
397 posts, read 363,159 times
Reputation: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Exactly what I thought, so caught up in your own thinking that you cannot even understand the opposing view. There is no point in me digging up facts and wasting time if someone is brainwashed. If you could show me you clearly understand why Trump supporters support him, then I wouldn't mind pulling up some figures for you, but if someone has their head in the sand, there is no point.

I can pretend I'm a Hillary supporter and easily debate a Trump supporter any day, even though I don't agree, I understand why Hillary supporters or Democrats in general believe in what they do.
Let's not focus on the presidency anymore. We know who's going to win.

The question is, how soon will the local governments will swing toward democrats. Further question is how much this will flow down to other institutions that'll wipe away tyranny of the racist americans that call themselves "alt right".
 
Old 09-02-2016, 07:31 PM
 
24,352 posts, read 26,826,712 times
Reputation: 19827
Quote:
Originally Posted by livinfairfax View Post
Let's not focus on the presidency anymore. We know who's going to win.

The question is, how soon will the local governments will swing toward democrats. Further question is how much this will flow down to other institutions that'll wipe away tyranny of the racist americans that call themselves "alt right".
People are getting fed up with the direction of the country, sooner or later Hispanics and Blacks are going to realize all the promises by Democrats have been empty and while wealthy White people are getting richer, they are getting poorer, this applies especially toward Black voters where Democrats don't even care about their issues because they view them as a guaranteed vote. Eventually, they will have enough and give the other side a chance.
 
Old 09-02-2016, 07:43 PM
 
397 posts, read 363,159 times
Reputation: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
People are getting fed up with the direction of the country, sooner or later Hispanics and Blacks are going to realize all the promises by Democrats have been empty and while wealthy White people are getting richer, they are getting poorer, this applies especially toward Black voters where Democrats don't even care about their issues because they view them as a guaranteed vote. Eventually, they will have enough and give the other side a chance.
Thank god this will be the last year of republicans whining.

Hillary will start the new right-arm movement. It'll be interesting since some of the domestic issues will be identical to the leftiest party.
 
Old 09-02-2016, 07:56 PM
 
24,352 posts, read 26,826,712 times
Reputation: 19827
Quote:
Originally Posted by livinfairfax View Post
Thank god this will be the last year of republicans whining.

Hillary will start the new right-arm movement. It'll be interesting since some of the domestic issues will be identical to the leftiest party.
Honestly, I don't really care who wins... most of my income these days is coming from the stock market, so I can make money in a bear or bull market. I am living a comfortable life, I just bought my first investment property in addition to my home. I have nothing to complain about. I just find it entertaining to discuss politics. I just think the current path we are taking economically is hurting low income earners and people in poverty stricken areas. I think the progressive push in certain areas will increase the wealth inequality trend happening in our country right now. Personally, the outcome of this election isn't going to effect me much because I am not wealthy, but I do have decent income and assets, so if gas jumps $1-2 per gallon because we want to tax oil companies more or prevent them from offshore drilling etc it won't hurt me just one example.
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