Question about the area around Nook apt. in Oakland?

[SocSciProf]

Originally Posted by jade408

The millennials just use Uber/Lyft. Most of the millennials I know don't have cars - they think it is a hassle. And they have plenty of disposable income. I know some gen x people who don't drive / don't have a license. They think about getting a license but it never moves to the top of the priority list.

Different values for people under 35-ish in my experience.

I have a car and don't use it often. Many things are more annoying to do with a car. I take transit / bike / Uber for 90% of my trips.

I'll resist the urge to ask how's that "UBER the GREAT SAVIOR OF MOBILITY" that happens to be misogynistic and anti-immigrant working out.

I'll just note: Jade, you HAVE a car. That's my point. You don't need a car, you have one anyway. That's what's going to happen in that neighborhood--people may not need a car, but they'll have one (each) anyway. And they have to be parked somewhere.

I agree, many things are more annoying to do with a car. I hope you agree, many things are annoying to do without a car. That's why I have a car and a bike. I didn't sell my bike when I got a car.

Somehow you seem to think wealthy people (that is, the people who can afford that neighborhood by the time all the building is done) are going to buy bikes but only rent cars. They do that in NY because public transportation goes everywhere, all night, and they have multiple parallel lines running the same direction so if anything goes wrong people can just switch to another line. That's not the bay area public transit system. And it is unlikely that that will ever be the bay area public transportation system, because the area did not develop as areas did back east; we don't have one central city and spokes leading out from it along which to build high density lines.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by SocSciProf

I'll resist the urge to ask how's that "UBER the GREAT SAVIOR OF MOBILITY" that happens to be misogynistic and anti-immigrant working out.

I'll just note: Jade, you HAVE a car. That's my point. You don't need a car, you have one anyway. That's what's going to happen in that neighborhood--people may not need a car, but they'll have one (each) anyway. And they have to be parked somewhere.

I agree, many things are more annoying to do with a car. I hope you agree, many things are annoying to do without a car. That's why I have a car and a bike. I didn't sell my bike when I got a car.

Somehow you seem to think wealthy people (that is, the people who can afford that neighborhood by the time all the building is done) are going to buy bikes but only rent cars. They do that in NY because public transportation goes everywhere, all night, and they have multiple parallel lines running the same direction so if anything goes wrong people can just switch to another line. That's not the bay area public transit system. And it is unlikely that that will ever be the bay area public transportation system, because the area did not develop as areas did back east; we don't have one central city and spokes leading out from it along which to build high density lines.

I disagree. I have a car because when I got it I needed it. Now I barely use it. It is my last choice and I am working on figuring out how to get rid of it in the right way. If I didn't have secure parking it would have been gone a long time ago. About 50% of my friends do not have cars at all. And many of those do not have licenses so they couldn't drive even if they want and most of them don't have bikes. They get along just fine without access to a car. It is completely doable. Particularly when you live near frequent bus service like that along the Broadway corridor.

I use my car about 2x a month. And ride sharing about 1x a week. I go to Target via bike half of the time. I grocery shop via bike 80% of the time. I haven't taken the bus to Target because it is easier to walk to the SF one after work and I just do that instead.

People younger than I have pretty much no attachment to cars. Even in Oakland. And many have means to afford them, but hey find it too much hassle. I would too if I didn't have parking in my building. I really I'd like to move closer to downtown and give up my car. And that is my 3 year plan. The car might leave sooner though.

I am excited because AC Transit changed the schedule of my favorite and most convenient bus so it runs later and more often. This will eliminate even more car and lyft trips for me!

[SocSciProf]

Originally Posted by jade408

I disagree. I have a car because when I got it I needed it. Now I barely use it. It is my last choice and I am working on figuring out how to get rid of it in the right way. If I didn't have secure parking it would have been gone a long time ago. About 50% of my friends do not have cars at all. And many of those do not have licenses so they couldn't drive even if they want and most of them don't have bikes. They get along just fine without access to a car. It is completely doable. Particularly when you live near frequent bus service like that along the Broadway corridor.

I use my car about 2x a month. And ride sharing about 1x a week. I go to Target via bike half of the time. I grocery shop via bike 80% of the time. I haven't taken the bus to Target because it is easier to walk to the SF one after work and I just do that instead.

People younger than I have pretty much no attachment to cars. Even in Oakland. And many have means to afford them, but hey find it too much hassle. I would too if I didn't have parking in my building. I really I'd like to move closer to downtown and give up my car. And that is my 3 year plan. The car might leave sooner though.

I am excited because AC Transit changed the schedule of my favorite and most convenient bus so it runs later and more often. This will eliminate even more car and lyft trips for me!

All due respect, Jade408, for over 2 years you've been saying you have to find a way to get rid of your car. In that time in the bay area, hundreds of thousands of cars have been sold, tens of thousands of cars in the area have been scrapped/recycled, and hundreds have been donated to good causes. You already live in what you've repeatedly called a transit easy area (as do I); if its so easy, you don't have to wait 'til you move downtown to get rid of your car. The delay is enough to make one wonder if you're ever really going to get rid of that car, which takes up one of the parking spaces you don't think developers should be forced to build (so, if you get rid of your car, you can rent or give the space to someone else and remove one car from the neighborhood streets! Win-win-win!). Your writings here would be far more persuasive if instead of indicating how you think millenials will live when they get kids, divorces and the need for easy travel to shepherd 1-3 kids on outings alone, health issues that accumulate (e.g., bum knee, bad back), you, you know, actually got rid of your car, and lived without one for a couple of years in this allegedly transit friendly neighborhood (i.e., for the same amount of time you've been saying here that you don't need/want a car). Just sayin'.

[artemis78]

Not sure why a months-old thread was resurrected, but for what it's worth, the housing that is being built in this neighborhood with reduced parking ratios is all rentals, mostly studios and 1BRs with some 2BRs and very few 3BRs. One parking space per unit is very reasonable for this housing. (The Nook is a micro-unit pilot that was supposed to be more affordable, which is why it was allowed to include even less parking.) What millennials might need or do once they are married with kids is somewhat moot, because they won't live in the Nook then. The parking ratios are in line with the existing car ownership rate in the neighborhood, which is already lower than the city average. Single-car households are common in this area (yes, even for families!), and there are many zero-car households too.

Nobody is suggesting that there's not a need for any parking--just that there's a need for less parking than you might need in less transit-dense areas. That said, if someone owns a car but does not want to pay for parking, then choosing a place that either doesn't offer or charges extra for parking is not a great plan. You can get a 2BR with parking up the street for a few hundred more if you don't care about the fancy amenities, so at the end of the day, if the market demand isn't there, the rents will have to adjust accordingly.