Horror at the rave (San Francisco, Oakland: 2013, renting, crimes)

[CaliRestoration]

I place blame where it's deserved. No excuses needed.

[sav858]

You sound like a really compassionate and tactful person.....

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by HappyinCali

Just like gun violence, we can't be silent when things like that happen. The city is absolutely at fault for this. They absolutely knew what was happening in that warehouse and looked the other way. In San Francisco Jane Kim fought to keep a warehouse as an artist collective when the owner wanted to revert it back to a warehouse.

I guarantee you that somebody in Oakland government knows about every single warehouse that is used like this and they do nothing. These spaces provide easy solutions to the housing problem for them. Much easier to look the other way than fight NIMBYs and try to build more housing.

I hope the families of the victims sue the crap out of Oakland.

These idiots cut into their wall so they could tap into the electrical system of the neighboring business.

Of course someone in Oakland's Code Enforcement knew about this death trap. The same goes for all the illegal conversions in San Franciso, or any other Bay Area city. Being a landlord in the Bay Area for a multi-tenant property is insane. If you have units in a "posh, rich" neighborhood, code enforcement is up your ass for any code violation. If you have a multi-unit building in some hood like West Oakland, you can turn your garage into a 2 bedroom unit and no one blinks an eye.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by sav858

You sound like a really compassionate and tactful person.....

When people like you use the term "compassion", what you really mean is "allow people to break OSHA rules and create a dangerous living environment that could lead to people's deaths".

Hurt feelings don't save lives. Liberal "compassion" literally killed dozens of people in this case.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Hurt feelings don't save lives. Liberal "compassion" literally killed dozens of people in this case.

Lax code enforcement along with bad judgment on the tenants part killed dozens. Stop making everything about "liberals", its pathetic. I knew this thread wouldn't go long without you chiming in on your "conservative" soap box. You literally have no tact at all.


No, when I use the word "compassion" I'm simply talking about being tactful. Stop reading into stuff so much and putting words in people's mouths ASSuming things.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by sav858

Lax code enforcement along with bad judgment on the tenants part killed dozens. Stop making everything about "liberals", its pathetic. I knew this thread wouldn't go long without you chiming in on your "conservative" soap box. You literally have no tact at all.


No, when I use the word "compassion" I'm simply talking about being tactful. Stop reading into stuff so much and putting words in people's mouths ASSuming things.

When you say "stop making things about liberals", you mean don't blame leftist policies of which were implemented by democrat office holders and appointed offices of the City of Oakland.

So stop putting blame where the blame should be put? Because it certainly wasn't a conservative office holder who allowed this to happen in Oakland.

We're way past being "tactful" here. Being tactful got dozens of people burned to death. This will happen again if people don't accept reality. Why do you want people to continue dying in 100% preventable fires sav858? Where's your "compassion"?

[convextech]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

these poor democratic liberal

The POC forum is that way ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>

[sav858]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

When you say "stop making things about liberals", you mean don't blame leftist policies of which were implemented by democrat office holders and appointed offices of the City of Oakland.

So stop putting blame where the blame should be put? Because it certainly wasn't a conservative office holder who allowed this to happen in Oakland.

We're way past being "tactful" here. Being tactful got dozens of people burned to death. This will happen again if people don't accept reality. Why do you want people to continue dying in 100% preventable fires sav858? Where's your "compassion"?

No I mean stop being bias about everything and finding anyway to make it a political issue about liberals. But we all know that is asking too much of you.

Not sure why you think lax code enforcement is some "leftist" policy as it happens in various cities, including conservative ones, all around the country.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by convextech

The POC forum is that way ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>

Oh, but you'd miss this first hand experience I'm about to post.

From a survivor's FB feed:

"There was only one exit. I was on the top floor when the fire started, so I don't know how it got started. I distinctly remember thinking that this probably wasn't a big deal and/or that it was maybe a prank.


After the fire started I walked to the top of the stairs where there was only enough room for one maybe two people to go down at a time. At this point I still didn't think it was a big deal. It wasn't until a girl ahead of me came back up the stairs and yelled that "it's too thick everyone back up to the top." (This may not be exactly what she said but I'm this whole period is kind of a blur it's the gist of it however)


That was when I realized that this was very serious and that I was in big trouble. At this point I realized that my best shot at survival was to find my way down the stairs and and try and find the exit. My decision to go down was a coin flip at that point because I was terrified. The kind of fear I felt was not the kind of fear I have ever felt towards anything in my entire life. This was a primal sort of fear. I very much didn't care about other people making it out as long as I did at this point. Luckily I don't think I smashed into anybody or hit them on my way out. I completely lost track of my two friends during this time period to give an example of how one track minded I was. I feel really bad that I didn't care and I feel like I should have said something to all those people before I jumped down. Maybe give them a fighting chance if they realized that down was the only potential option for survival.


Bear in mind that the time it took for me to first see smoke and reach the top of the stairs before things got really bad was only like a minute.


So once I slipped and slid down the stairs keep in mind that these were the worst crafted stairs ever. (The first bit was like a ramp almost. And then the steps had varying heights sometimes almost coming up to thigh level. I'm 5'9 so while I'm not super tall that's enough for some of the steps to be way too tall for stairs.)


Once I made it down the stairs I tried to crawl to where I knew the exit was. I had a good general idea of its distance from me but I would have to find two doors and to try and get out. Even though I had an idea of where I was because of coming down the stairs the way I stumbled down basically made it so it's very likely that I wouldn't find an exit.


Once I was down there it was awful. I couldn't see or breathe. It was hot smoky and hard to focus. Thankfully at this point it wasn't so hot that I was burning just being there. There were other people crawling around on the floor too.


So I was down there and I was having trouble finding the exit. At this point I genuinely thought I was going to die choking on smoke in these horrid conditions. Part of this was definitely because the lower level is like a ****ing maze. The stair room had three different exits and only one would have been the way to outside.

So I had only been down on the floor for 15ish seconds. (Even though it genuinely felt like I was down there for eternity.) As I was down there blindly trying to find the door to get out I got really lucky. Some dude who had already gotten out stood right by the exit with all the billowing smoke and was repeatedly yelling "this is the exit" "exit." I can say without a doubt that that dude saved my life. If he wasn't there yelling I would have never found the exit and I probably would have died.

Once I got outside I ran into one of my friends who had been inside. He had been behind me to go down the stairs and had somehow gotten out in front of me. I was so happy that at least we had made it out.

The outside looked to me like a ****ing warzone. People were covered in soot and crying and hugging each other and screaming. Lots of people were calling out their friends names in an effort to find them. I just kind of stood and there and stared hoping that my other friend had made it out and that everyone would make it out safe.


Once I got out, only two more people made it out after I did.


In around five minutes or so the fire department showed up. by the time they reached the scene the entire building was in flames. For a thirty or so minute period I stood there waiting for the them to try and get people out in the vain hope that my other friend had made it out and that they would be able to get everyone out.

During this time period it really looked like the fire was starting to go down. And there was a chance of saving more lives. Unfortunately everyone's hopes were crushed when in the space of one second the fire got like three times worse. It started coming out the windows and the roof caught fire. I waited there for close to three or four hours hoping that we could get some information about our friend. I still don't know what happened to him or if he's even okay.

Also I should note that the building went up so fast. I'd have to say it was probably 3/4s on fire in under 3 minutes.


I'm really tired and the night is very blurry, plus i'm typing this on my phone so if there are any spelling/ grammar errors and the story isn't very coherent I apologize. I might have messed up some of the details as well. It's also very hard for me to talk about this but I still decided to because I think that my memory of the night is only going to get worse from here."

No fire suppression system in place.

One unmarked exit.

No fire escape on 2nd floor.

Man I hope Oakland goes bankrupt as a lesson to other city code enforcement that allowing death traps like this to exist should have a massive penalty, especially when people burn to death.

But knowing Oakland (and the Bay Area), my guess is nothing actually changes.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by sav858

No I mean stop being bias about everything and finding anyway to make it a political issue about liberals. But we all know that is asking too much of you.

Not sure why you think lax code enforcement is some "leftist" policy as it happens in various cities, including conservative ones, all around the country.

I'm simply placing blame where blame should be placed.

True or false, Oakland public offices and appointed offices are primarily held by leftist democrats?

Also name "conservative cities" where dozens of people burned to death because of lax code enforcement. You claimed it happens all around the country, go ahead, I'll wait.