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This is the price to pay if we make climate change our number one priority. Limited development = limited housing = non-affordable prices ... this is just one part of it. I'm all for requiring recycling, investing in buses that use clean energy, offering tax incentives for companies to buy clean energy products... but limiting development is a bad idea.
Imagine having been born into a life with little to nothing to compare with those of means. Means meaning such varied resources as: family money, favorable genetics, natural talents and intellect, personal connections, and the good fortune to have any of those things contemporaneously coincide with opportunities to leverage them. Curious how so many with those kinds of advantages often lack the insight to recognize their own good luck - and instead attribute their "success" to somehow having created themselves into their well-being. Fun to look down on others, is it?
You do not know anything about me or my history. Further: you don't know what I have seen and experienced, let alone what I am able to imagine. Take your 'advantages' (privilege) implications and place them elsewhere.
Better yet, imagine having the means to not have to wait in a long ass line for free stuff when you could have the means to attain it yourself. Now that would be awesome. I'd imagine most of these people are people of color who didn't have the opportunities your grandparents had to keep their lineage above the poverty line. You have to remember the free land grab of the 1800's which brought a lot of white people out of poverty and to the west coast. You have to remember that the laws of 1900's were designed to keep people of color indebted to the majority by way of having to work menial labor as education was not a consequence of being freed. You have to remember that initially, social security and benefits were designed to only be available to people who were not menial labor, such as cooks, housekeepers and laundry workers; the good jobs of the time for people of color.
Remember that the people who could afford to save the money to purchase property in the 1950's had a 100 year head start on the majority of those people standing in line. Consequently, statements like yours wouldn't have been said during the depression. Some of these elderly people still have the mindset of not being able to attain what you have base on the treatment they received in their history. Not saying it is a right to have to stand in line for subsidized housing, that is a whole other issue to do with city planning, etc. My intended point is that there is more than one side to a story.
Better yet, imagine having the means to not have to wait in a long ass line for free stuff when you could have the means to attain it yourself. Now that would be awesome.
Yes, imagine that people are self sufficient and do for themselves and are not subsidized by others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXIALE02
I'd imagine most of these people are people of color who didn't have the opportunities your grandparents had to keep their lineage above the poverty line.
How do you know what opportunities my grandparents had? Why do you assume the they were above an imaginary line of poverty? How do you know where they lived and how they survived? Why are my grandparents even relevant to my objecting to people getting handouts (taxes) at the expense of others?
RE "people of color" whatever that even means: Who cares what color the recipients are? All humans have a color. By the look of the photo these people are pale Asians. Are such persons considered people of color?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXIALE02
You have to remember the free land grab of the 1800's which brought a lot of white people out of poverty and to the west coast.
No relevance to the topic at hand. This is also a call to emotion, calling for historical sympathy. Moreover, by the look of the photo these people are Asians, likely more recent immigrants and not decadents of Coolies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXIALE02
You have to remember that the laws of 1900's were designed to keep people of color indebted to the majority by way of having to work menial labor as education was not a consequence of being freed.
No relevance to the topic at hand. This is also a call to emotion, calling for historical sympathy. Moreover, by the look of the photo these people are Asians who are doing well as a group in California.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXIALE02
You have to remember that initially, social security and benefits were designed to only be available to people who were not menial labor, such as cooks, housekeepers and laundry workers; the good jobs of the time for people of color.
No relevance to the topic at hand. This is also a call to emotion, calling for historical sympathy. Moreover, by the look of the photo these people are Asians who are doing well as a group in California.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXIALE02
Remember that the people who could afford to save the money to purchase property in the 1950's had a 100 year head start on the majority of those people standing in line.
No relevance to the topic at hand. This is also a call to emotion, calling for historical sympathy. Moreover, by the look of the photo these people are Asians who are doing well as a group in California.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXIALE02
Consequently, statements like yours wouldn't have been said during the depression.
No relevance to the topic at hand. Also the fact that someone made similar pronouncements 100 years ago does not validate or invalidate the statement(s) made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXIALE02
Some of these elderly people still have the mindset of not being able to attain what you have base on the treatment they received in their history.
No relevance to the topic at hand. Also the fact that someone made similar pronouncements 100 years ago does not validate or invalidate the statement(s) made. You might be implying that I am elderly. I am not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXIALE02
Not saying it is a right to have to stand in line for subsidized housing, that is a whole other issue to do with city planning, etc. My intended point is that there is more than one side to a story.
You are using emotion to argue in favor of taxing others to pay for their housing.
LuvSouthOC, so that is the root of the matter, you have no emotions!! You cannot tell me history has no bearing (is relevant) of the present. You may not agree with me, but shooting down my opinion is not a good argument. Come with your own. Gotta go to a picnic in the real world, chat with you later.
Here is an example, I hope you will read this post...
Dennis is from a wealthy family and didn't work during high school and got average grades, but his parents donated $300k, so he could get into XYZ college.
You now have Bob and Steve who both were born into poverty. Bob studied hard, worked part-time during high school, he didn't waste money on drugs or liquor and got accepted into XYZ because of his hard work.
Steve on the other hand viewed himself as sort of a victim of society, so he spent his time in high school, partying, sleeping in on the weekends, just messing around and now complains at the system because he isn't able to get into that school because his parents aren't rich like Dennis's parents.
Dennis says we need to find a way to get people like Steve into top colleges like XYZ because since he was born into poverty, he had no chance to excel in school.
Bob becomes agitated at Dennis because he came from poverty and he worked his butt off to get into XYZ and sees absolutely no reason why the rules should change to let Steve into XYZ.
Dennis calls Bob a heartless POS and says you have no idea what it's like to be poor, Steve had no chance on getting into XYZ.
It's easy for the wealthy kid to feel for Steve. It's easy for Bob to look down on Steve. The wealthy kid will look at Bob and say how can you be so cruel! Well, Bob came from a poor family, which is why he is critical of Steve. The wealthy kid has no idea because he was born with a silver spoon.
Now you can apply this to things like taxes... Bob gets a good job, Steve is living on welfare, Dennis already wealthy from his family becomes a politician and tells Bob, we need to increase your taxes so people like Steve can have a better life! Oh and we should increase fees and taxes to discourage people from driving so much and we need to increase regulations to prevent developments to save the Earth. This increases the cost of living for Bob who is forced to move further out because he can no longer afford rent, he now is stuck with a longer commute, paying for expensive gas etc etc etc.
This is where elitism comes from in today's society.
(Don't get me wrong, there are people born into wealth and still have no sympathy for people in poverty, however in today's society, they are the minority)
Whoosh ... as usual with you. The point made was that, regardless of family money, some people are born with and exposed to skills, abilities, and personality and intellectual traits that, when brought to bear under fortunate timing and circumstances result more favorably than others. Born rich people and born smart people can fail miserably. Born poor and even born stupid people can rise to great heights. Hard work is not the only determining factor. Many people work like slaves all their lives and get nowhere. We do not create our genetics before we are born. We do not choose our parents. We have no say in our environment as youths. Some people of disadvantaged beginnings are born with traits that when crossed with fortunate exposures result in high accomplishments. Others, even with strong traits just never catch a break.
People who sneer at others know nothing of the infinite elements that create the situations being judged. That smacks of extremely shallow character on the part of someone who just plain got lucky themselves.
If I could go back with my inflation adjusted money I could buy several. It's not that hard to save up a few grand even back then for a downpayment
But of course you have absolutely no idea if it was easy to save a few grand in the 50's because you weren't alive then were you? So, just for kicks let's look at some data: In Boston in 1950, the average family income was $4178 a year. with 51.2% of households earning less than $3,000 annually. Household expenditures consumed $3,946 leaving the median income family with $232 in disposable income to put into savings. https://www.bls.gov/opub/uscs/1950.pdf
Looking at actual real estate listings for homes, here's a 4 room house offered for sale for $11,000 in Pittsfield Massachusetts. A 20% down payment would be $2200 and would take the typical Boston family about 9 and 1/2 years.
Yes, imagine that people are self sufficient and do for themselves and are not subsidized by others.
How do you know what opportunities my grandparents had? Why do you assume the they were above an imaginary line of poverty? How do you know where they lived and how they survived? Why are my grandparents even relevant to my objecting to people getting handouts (taxes) at the expense of others?
RE "people of color" whatever that even means: Who cares what color the recipients are? All humans have a color. By the look of the photo these people are pale Asians. Are such persons considered people of color?
No relevance to the topic at hand. This is also a call to emotion, calling for historical sympathy. Moreover, by the look of the photo these people are Asians, likely more recent immigrants and not decadents of Coolies.
No relevance to the topic at hand. This is also a call to emotion, calling for historical sympathy. Moreover, by the look of the photo these people are Asians who are doing well as a group in California.
No relevance to the topic at hand. This is also a call to emotion, calling for historical sympathy. Moreover, by the look of the photo these people are Asians who are doing well as a group in California.
No relevance to the topic at hand. This is also a call to emotion, calling for historical sympathy. Moreover, by the look of the photo these people are Asians who are doing well as a group in California.
No relevance to the topic at hand. Also the fact that someone made similar pronouncements 100 years ago does not validate or invalidate the statement(s) made.
No relevance to the topic at hand. Also the fact that someone made similar pronouncements 100 years ago does not validate or invalidate the statement(s) made. You might be implying that I am elderly. I am not.
You are using emotion to argue in favor of taxing others to pay for their housing.
Yes, imagine that people are self sufficient and do for themselves and are not subsidized by others.
How do you know what opportunities my grandparents had? Why do you assume the they were above an imaginary line of poverty? How do you know where they lived and how they survived? Why are my grandparents even relevant to my objecting to people getting handouts (taxes) at the expense of others?
RE "people of color" whatever that even means: Who cares what color the recipients are? All humans have a color. By the look of the photo these people are pale Asians. Are such persons considered people of color?
No relevance to the topic at hand. This is also a call to emotion, calling for historical sympathy. Moreover, by the look of the photo these people are Asians, likely more recent immigrants and not decadents of Coolies.
No relevance to the topic at hand. This is also a call to emotion, calling for historical sympathy. Moreover, by the look of the photo these people are Asians who are doing well as a group in California.
No relevance to the topic at hand. This is also a call to emotion, calling for historical sympathy. Moreover, by the look of the photo these people are Asians who are doing well as a group in California.
No relevance to the topic at hand. This is also a call to emotion, calling for historical sympathy. Moreover, by the look of the photo these people are Asians who are doing well as a group in California.
No relevance to the topic at hand. Also the fact that someone made similar pronouncements 100 years ago does not validate or invalidate the statement(s) made.
No relevance to the topic at hand. Also the fact that someone made similar pronouncements 100 years ago does not validate or invalidate the statement(s) made. You might be implying that I am elderly. I am not.
You are using emotion to argue in favor of taxing others to pay for their housing.
Most people who had to work hard in their life have empathy for others, you seem to have absolutely none and you seem proud of that.
I cant imagine why anyone would look down their nose at these seniors. Especially with the rip off cost of living in the Bay Area. Most senior housing is 30% of ones income. Let's face facts these people are elderly. They do not work and live off retirement income. Not everyone can own and maintain a home in Senior years. So they go in apts. Sadly they are priced out of market rate apts. So what else can they do but live in the type apts mentioned.
The problem lies with the outrageous cost of housing and medical cost in this country. It is not these seniors that are the problem. They are the victims of the reasons I mentioned. I can just imagine the huge monthly medical bills, some of these seniors may have. How the hell could they pay market rate rents there.
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